Head-fi Lawyers: a question for you
Mar 7, 2009 at 12:15 AM Thread Starter Post #1 of 35

Zarathustra19

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Hey all,
Prompted by a comment made by Cheesebert I decided to start this thread to get a few opinions/pieces of advice/information on both law school and the years following it. According to cheese, I should drop out of law school before I begin as it is career suicide. Though I know he means well with this warning, I found it kind of disheartening. The way I see it, if I'm unable to find work as an actual attorney, there are plenty of other things I could do with a JD other than that. So my questions are these: What were your experiences in law school, were they worth it? and what do you think of my entering the legal career? Your opinions are valued, but I'm sure my mind is made up on going to law school. I've been working toward it for six years now, since junior year of high school, so its a pretty set plan. I'm just hoping to get your input either to boost my spirits or harden my resolve (or in the worst case just steel my nerves for failure).

All responses are much appreciated. And Cheese, I know you mean well, this thread is in no way a reflection of ill feelings toward you.

Cheers!
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Mar 7, 2009 at 1:04 AM Post #2 of 35
Im no expert, but if you been working towards it for 6 years already, then maybe you should finish, or your 6 year investment will be a waste.
I cant imagine the business of LAW ever going flat totally.
It better not, because i have a side thing that deals with lawyers...lol.
GoodLuck!
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Mar 7, 2009 at 1:09 AM Post #3 of 35
I am not trying to discourage OP from going to law school in and of itself. If OP were to say he got into Yale/Harvard/Stanford, I would congratulate him wholeheartedly knowing that he will be practically guaranteed a job after he graduates; although the current economy does put a little damper on that statement.
 
Mar 7, 2009 at 1:15 AM Post #4 of 35
True Chese (sorry for the misspelling ealier), I should also say, which I didn't before, that I'm not going to be anchored to one place. First of all, my LSAT scores were not of the quality that the top tier schools would appreciate, but I don't plan on necessarily staying in PA. In fact, if I can I'd love to get out of here ASAP to a place that's more accepting of my two major non-headphone loves: alcohol (beer specifically) and cigars. So that said, I'm not sure the job market will be limited as much as you may think. But then again, I'm still young, idealistic and impressionable.
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Cheers!
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BTW, thanks for the well wishes and kind words drag0n.

P.S. I've not decided for sure to go to Widener. I have applications out to Penn State Dickinson and Pitt as well as one to Golden Gate University School of Law in San Fransisco (worse job market in terms of top tier schools).
 
Mar 7, 2009 at 1:18 AM Post #5 of 35
as long as you go to an accredited school (and do well), you should be able to find employment in the public sector (state not federal) or at small firms. you will not make a lot of money but you will still be a lawyer practicing the law.
 
Mar 7, 2009 at 1:49 AM Post #7 of 35
See this article.

Summary: Either go to a T14 law school and get a big law job, or go to a law school where the cost of tuition is very low. Anything else is financial suicide as you'll be servicing a $75K+ debt on a salary in the $40-60K range. Not to mention you would be losing out on 3 years of earnings you would otherwise have.

Bottom line, law school is bad enough for the vast majority of law students that it makes engineering look like a brilliant career choice...
 
Mar 7, 2009 at 4:25 AM Post #8 of 35
I know guys that have gone into law and love it, and some that say it is not for them, even after all that schooling. If you like doing it than stick with it, but I would heed the advice about going to a cheaper school if you do not get into a top tier school as you will be wasting money.


Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Bottom line, law school is bad enough for the vast majority of law students that it makes engineering look like a brilliant career choice...


Hey now take it easy on us engineers. I'd like to think that when I'm finished with school my BS.ME and BS Applied Physics will let me do more than just tech salesman or Q.A., haha.
 
Mar 7, 2009 at 6:04 AM Post #9 of 35
To the OP, you should also consider in your analysis why you want to practice law, and what else you like to do. And do you think you will enjoy the practice of law and be good at it?

If someone wanted to be a lawyer and thought that is what they are cut out for (and didn't have a burning desire to do something else), I don't think they should be unduly discouraged by the economy (although it is wise to make good judgments about tuition, loans, the opportunities that are available graduating from the school you are likely to attend, etc.). I mean, things are pretty tough all over right now. And the world, eventually, will turn.

Too many people, though, go to law school for reasons other than the desire to practice law.

P.S. I've been practicing law for 28 years.
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P.P.S. Legal training is also useful for arguing with people on forums like Head-Fi.
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Mar 7, 2009 at 6:59 AM Post #10 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
P.P.S. Legal training is also useful for arguing with people on forums like Head-Fi.
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This alone is almost worth the $100K and 3 years of academic masochism.
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Mar 7, 2009 at 7:03 AM Post #11 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by Usagi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This alone is almost worth the $100K and 3 years of academic masochism.
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LOL. I've found that it doesn't help when arguing with your wife, your mother, or your teenage daughters, however.
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Mar 7, 2009 at 8:46 AM Post #12 of 35
Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
LOL. I've found that it doesn't help when arguing with your wife, your mother, or your teenage daughters, however.
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gotta keep your pimp hand strong
 
Mar 7, 2009 at 10:17 AM Post #15 of 35
Kind of early in the thread to be chiming in since I probably represent an outlier in terms of my experience. I'll be interested in seeing what some of the other folks have to say (tyrion, Voltron, UncleErik, etc).

In my case, I never intended to practice law nor have I ever accepted for one moment that my seat in my law school class was wasted space. It's not like I didn't care or didn't study. It's not like I couldn't have, at some point after graduation, decided to go back and take the bar, get a job, and become a good lawyer boy. But people sure did give me enough grief about preventing someone else from realizing their dreams. I thought that was a bit whacked, in that I had my own dreams, so who is to judge?

My interest was in teaching, and when I started law school I was on temporary leave from a Ph.D. program in accounting. My thoughts at the time were to eventually go back to finish my Ph.D. (after law school) and to teach at a major US university (accounting, taxation, and business law). In any case, I was fortunate enough to have wisely chosen a law school that was sufficiently non-T14 (or anything that would resemble T14), such that I was able to teach accounting at that same university on a full time basis while attending law school full time, and still managed to finish in the top 10% of my class.

The main reason I did so well in law school was that I really didn't care too much about my grades, but I studied like crazy simply because I tuely loved the learning process and found most law courses to be fascinating, even things like admiralty law, intellectual property, or trusts and estates. I'm quite sure that I'll never experience anything like it again in terms of the intensity of the experience (given my other commitments at the time, teaching full time and being a textbook author which also took a lot of time).

So to me, that was the buzz. Just reading, thinking, discussing, and enjoying the learning process without really being concerned about where it would all lead or what the payoff might be in the end. In a sense, this is exactly how law school was intended to be approached from the very beginning. It's only in recent times (probably the past 50-60 years) that the study of law or the practice of law has become more about the "business" of studying law or the "business" of practicing law. In any case, it's a luxury that I don't think enough people allow themselves while in law school. But of course the same is true of any other discipline you can think of. How many people do you find at the main university library on a weekend just wandering the shelves and looking for something interesting to read? Something that is not "required" reading for their courses?

Anyway, that's all I know, I suppose. I've never practiced law (as such), so I couldn't tell you the first thing about that. But I do know that my legal background has been put to good use many times in my life. Mostly when I was in private banking, but also with resepct to many things I'm involved in now with a number of companies that I serve as a director for. In my view, it's something that you'll never regret, especially if you pursue your studies with the right perspective.

There is so much to learn from the "process" of studying law, it's just unreal. To me, it was a strong enabling experience in the sense that once it was all done (graduation day), I felt that I could do anything that I set my mind to. Whether you'll ever remember anything or be able to put it to practical use is quite another matter, but don't be completely discouraged by all of the practical considerations (job market outlook and so on). Weigh those factors in your decision making, but think about what you really want to be happening in your life as well.

Make no mistake about it, however, in that my presepctive on the whole thing is quite different than that of most people. I'm an outlier in terms of my experience because what mattered to me was the learning process itself (that's what I was there for) and thus I never allowed myself to become jaded in any way by wondering whether it would all pay off or whatever. Most people eased off in their studies considerably after the first year grades were out, but I studied just as much in all 3 years because I actually enjoyed it, believe it or not! In fact, I went back to a different (but equally non descript) law school 5 years later to get an LLM in taxation and enjoyed it every bit as much.

To me, that's where it's at in life. Enjoy what you're doing as you're doing it. Give it your best at all times, then you won't have any regrets. The rest will all work itself out one way or another. You're not responsible for solving the world's economic problems, so why bring all that upon yourself? If you're good enough at what you do and work hard enough, you'll have plenty of opportunities when you graduate. If not, then go to Plan B and work equally hard on that. If not, then Plan C. Eventually, the rewards will come.
 

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