[terriblepaulz]

I went to law school both because I I was in my mid twenties (3 years out of undergrad) and had to do something, and I did not want to work kitchen hours (the other option I was considering). The bottom line for me was that I had to have a job that offered a minimum of intellectual stimulation. Fortunately, between financial aid and family help, I was able to finish without a huge debt load. That's key - if you are taking on the big nut, you have to be able to get a big money gig.

I am glad I went. School itself was fun, then again I always liked school. And unlike undergrad, where partying proved a major detriment to studying, I got married the summer before I started, and had mellowed a bit. This meant getting my class-work done, while clerking part time after 1st year, was relatively easy.

My first 4 years as an associate were pretty negative - dull to horrible. If my experience was limited to that, I would try and scare you away. But that misery led me to the decision to go into business for myself, and open a practice with a partner. Absolutely the best decision I ever made, at least from the personal fulfillment perspective. I qualify because I traded a steady paycheck for the opportunity to have my own practice. In 5 years there have been some lean times. But my Mondays never suck.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by terriblepaulz /img/forum/go_quote.gif I went to law school both because I I was in my mid twenties (3 years out of undergrad) and had to do something, and I did not want to work kitchen hours (the other option I was considering). The bottom line for me was that I had to have a job that offered a minimum of intellectual stimulation. Fortunately, between financial aid and family help, I was able to finish without a huge debt load. That's key - if you are taking on the big nut, you have to be able to get a big money gig. I am glad I went. School itself was fun, then again I always liked school. And unlike undergrad, where partying proved a major detriment to studying, I got married the summer before I started, and had mellowed a bit. This meant getting my class-work done, while clerking part time after 1st year, was relatively easy. My first 4 years as an associate were pretty negative - dull to horrible. If my experience was limited to that, I would try and scare you away. But that misery led me to the decision to go into business for myself, and open a practice with a partner. Absolutely the best decision I ever made, at least from the personal fulfillment perspective. I qualify because I traded a steady paycheck for the opportunity to have my own practice. In 5 years there have been some lean times. But my Mondays never suck.

1) Year of your class?
2) School rank (you do realize OP is going to a tier 4)?
3) Class rank after 1L? @ graduation?
4) Practice area?
5) Type/Size of firm (Big/Mid/Small/Boutique/sh!t-law) at which you spent your first 4 years as an associate?

Providing the above information should give OP a better perspective on where he stands relative to your stats.

Thanks.

BTW is Chitown still doing ok for lawyers? We have already seen in this/other threads that CA and DC market are going down the toilet; and I can't imaging NY fairing much better with all those failing banks.

 

[The Monkey]

The answer, as any good lawyer will tell you, is "it depends."

That said, I think there are some thoughtful responses in here that I'd like to twist and use for my own purposes.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Uncle Erik /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, it's worth going. I think the best reason is what a classmate told me just after enrolling. He said, "I don't remember how I used to think before law school."

Agreed. In my first year, my Real Property professor asked the class, "Are there too many lawyers in this country?" He answered himself, "Yes." Then he continued, "Are there enough law-trained people in this country?" His answer, "No." Law school teaches you to think and analyze in ways that will serve you well regardless of what you choose to do.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif in everyday term - you learn to spot the issues. Is issue spotting skill worth 100k? It depends

In my opinion, yes it is.

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY /img/forum/go_quote.gif The point is, graduates from the lower tier schools weren't getting quality positions when the economy was good. There is a good likelihood the economy will improve in three years, but this fact probably won't. There is a huge oversupply of law grads in this country even in good years. It is a much better career strategy to take a year off, improve one's LSAT scores, and get into a good school. Otherwise it's not a good investment and in a sense you're cheating yourself.

I agree and disagree. I went to a T3 or 4 school, but in the NY Metro area, which means that it was not an unknown school. Regardless, I was in school as the tech bubble burst. I got a good summer associate position at Biglaw in NYC, then clerked for a federal judge after graduating, and then worked at a Top 10 firm in NYC. I am now in house.

So, you can make things happen regardless of where you go, but the deck will be stacked against you as has been pointed out in this thread. At a T3 school, you will need to do very very well to get the jobs that you really want. And the problem is that even though it's a T3 or 4 school, there are still plenty of smart people who know damn well they need to make top 10% to have as many options as possible. Cracking that top 10% at a T3 is not easy, at least in my experience.

If you go to a T3/4 school, just know that you will have to hustle even if you are at the top of your class.

Quote:

Originally Posted by terriblepaulz /img/forum/go_quote.gif My first 4 years as an associate were pretty negative - dull to horrible. If my experience was limited to that, I would try and scare you away.

My experience at biglaw was the same. I loved clerking, one of the best experiences of my life. But the life of a biglaw associate was not for me. I worked constantly and was miserably unhappy due to the nature of the work and its omnipresence in my life. I do not blame this on the law firm. It is a fine firm and I met bright and dynamic people there (whose souls had not yet been crushed) and the workload was no secret going in. I just was surprised to find that I didn't like the practice all that much (I was a litigator). I don't like legal research and brief writing, which made me particularly ill-suited to being a litigator, and the money and fancy office didn't make me happy.

Then I went in house, which is better for me. More rapid pace during the day, but the hours are, well, there's just no comparison. More importantly, I feel like I actually get to use my legal training to tackle everyday business problems. There is a certain satisfaction to just getting things done, which is a mentality you need to have in house. All that said, I still don't love solving other people's problems.

Overall, I'm glad I went to law school. Jury's still out as to whether I am glad I became a lawyer.

Quote:

Originally Posted by chesebert /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1) Year of your class? 2) School rank (you do realize OP is going to a tier 4)? 3) Class rank after 1L? @ graduation? 4) Practice area? 5) Type/Size of firm (Big/Mid/Small/Boutique/sh!t-law) at which you spent your first 4 years as an associate? Providing the above information should give OP a better perspective on where he stands relative to your stats.

1) Early 2000's
2) T3
3) Top 15% after 1L. Top 8% at graduation.
4) Former litigator. Now general corporate.
5) Top 10 biglaw in NYC, approximately 800 attorneys.

Finally, I have a younger brother who is in a similar position. He is trying to decide whether or not to go to law school. For whatever it is worth, my gut reaction advice to him has been not to go.

EDIT: to any non-lawyers or lawyers not practicing at big firms, etc., I am not placing any value on "Top 10 firm" and/or "biglaw." I use those terms for convenience/categorization only.

 

[chesebert]

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif I agree and disagree. I went to a T3 or 4 school, but in the NY Metro area, which means that it was not an unknown school. Regardless, I was in school as the tech bubble burst. I got a good summer associate position at Biglaw in NYC, then clerked for a federal judge after graduating, and then worked at a Top 10 firm in NYC. I am now in house.

That's great! but OP should realize that you went to law school during the golden age of law firms, which is not so in this economy.

Op should also realize that 15% after 1L at TTT going into Biglaw is RARE; You must have something that made you special (you must be one smooth talker

OP should also note that he will be attending a Tier 4 in a secondary legal market in a tough economy.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The Monkey /img/forum/go_quote.gif And the problem is that even though it's a T3 or 4 school, there are still plenty of smart people who know damn well they need to make top 10% to have as many options as possible. Cracking that top 10% at a T3 is not easy, at least in my experience. If you go to a T3/4 school, just know that you will have to hustle even if you are at the top of your class.

Even T14 students are not confident whether they can make top 10% at a TTT because the law school grading process for 1L is very arbitrary; so you will never know and luck plays a very prominent role in your 1L GPA, i.e. the difference between A+/A/A-/B+ is usually very minor and sometime it's completely arbitrary which of the 4 grades you will get, assuming your TTT is curving at B-/C+ level

So in other words, you have to perform significantly better than your peers to avoid a financial/career suicide and whether you can perform significantly better is often depended on some arbitrary and random factors.

Pleas note: TTT is short for Tier 3, Tier 4 and Tier 2 law schools with no national/regional placement power

 

[chadbang]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zarathustra19 /img/forum/go_quote.gif What do you think of my entering the legal career?.

Good idea.

That will be $800 dollars.