[Fedelesk]

Yea wafflezz I'd say I'm sensitive to high end. I've had friends make me presets and it makes my ears bleed. And yea I can't afford another mistake like that haha, I feel strongly the M-100's are what I need to hear. I'm going to attempt to make a trip to a store where I can hear these before I buy. And thanks Lor, I know I'll find my set. Not being a pro on this subject, I guess I thought "they are 400 dollars, how can I not love them?" 

 

[Thujone]

Since you are sensitive to highs and want more bass, go for the M-Audio Q40's. These are not V-shaped, but they are very bassy with a very clear midrange and soft highs.

 

[Fedelesk]

Quote:

I think this argument about what truly is neutral/flat derailed the thread a little.
 
Everyone hears differently... but it's just that your case is a bit odd. Normally the HE-400 is considered a bassy headphone, which you are calling neutral. The 280s are also considered bass-light, which you are saying is warm and punchy. And you seem to use some bass-boost EQ with your 280s which creates a unique warm tilt that you've become used to, and probably won't be able to match. You can see why it's confusing.
 
So from what I can tell, you don't like harsh treble, and want something warmer/bassier than the HE-400. That's calling for some serious coloration. Lucky that I just auditioned a D7100 this morning, and that might be a good fit. If they're out of your price range, go for the D600, which are supposed to be very similar with a tad less bass.

Yea it did derail a bit. First off I'm not the only one who says the 280's are bass-light. For closed yea they might be.. and for open yea the HE-400s must be good for bass. But in comparison, the 280's have solid bass IMO.  Again its my first open can so you can understand why I said that. I had a much different mentality, I understand the confusion of others though. 
Also I think it's simply the closed design that creates that bass I want, not the EQ's I've been making. 
 
We know now, I want closed cans and hate open. haha its that simple, really. 

 

[Ishcabible]

Quote:

If they're out of your price range, go for the D600, which are supposed to be very similar with a tad less bass.

 
I thought the D600 was quite bright, so that might not be the best of options. Luckily, some Best Buys carry them for demo. 
 
Also, I'm starting to think my ears are really, really flawed. The OP's opinion of the HD280 being warm with great bass isn't exactly unique; it's shared by people whose opinion I highly respect. But I just don't get it. No matter what position I finagle the pads, I hear something anemic, wonky, and just plain awful. If I heard the HD280 the way donunus and SoundFreaq describe them, I probably would have bought the pair I used back in 2008 and be blissfully ignorant of better options. 

 

[nicholars]

Hmmm some people call the HE400 dark and now I have read a few comments calling them bright and sibilant. Maybe I will give them a miss then or just skip straight to the HE500. The FR on the HE-400 does look pretty insane and the peak at ~10khz is pretty ridiculous... It is like 10db+ peak... This is probably where people are hearing the problems. I think it looks like even more of a peak than you see on most Beyerdynamic headphones around that area.

 

[Fedelesk]

If you are used to opem headphones they probably aee darker than your thinking. But idk I heard the dt880s are bright, I own them with the 400w and the 400s ar a bit more bright Id say

 

[nicholars]

Ouch sounds too bright for me because I found the beyerdynamic Dt990 ridiculously bright and sibilant although not heard the DT880 they are prob similar. If you look at the FR for the HE-400 they do look extremely uneven and have possibly the biggest treble peak at 10khz I have ever seen. Beyers usually have this as well. If you found the HE-400 WORSE than Beyerdynamics then sounds like they are actually really bright in the upper treble.

 

[Thujone]

When I got my HE-400's I immediately decided that they were the most sibilant cans I've ever listened to. I still believe that. However, after I got pushed out of my "no EQ" comfort zone, I found that you can get rid of the sibilance fairly easily by dropping 8k and 16k by 3dB (I use iTunes). You'll still find them to be sibilant on certain recordings (particularly with sssss in lyrics) but you can easily make them tolerable.

 

[nicholars]

Hmmm doesn't sound good. I have found that I have gone the other way with EQ...
 
I used to just buy any headphones and then EQ them to my liking... I have now realised that headphones sound much better when you leave them alone if you can find a pair that are pretty much what you want in stock form. All I usually do for the EQ is up the bass from <80hz and try to leave the rest alone.
 
Looks like I will either have to skip to the HE-500 or just get some different headphones because I hate sibilance and excessively bright headphones. What other headphones have you compared them to? As a reference I found the D2000, M50, CAL, Atrio, SRH840 Beyerdynamic all too bright and sibilant. Hmmm now I am wondering if the HE-500 are bright and sibilant as well?

 

[TMRaven]

Don't get the he400 if you find the m50 bright. To be fair, eqing the 400s treble down is as simple as eqing the lowest octaves of the bass up.

 

[nicholars]

Quote:

Don't get the he400 if you find the m50 bright. To be fair, eqing the 400s treble down is as simple as eqing the lowest octaves of the bass up.

 
I agree obviously it is simple to do but I find that EQing down treble does not really work very well if the headphones are harsh and peaky / sibilant then they will still sounds harsh / peaky / sibilant just it will be quieter compared to the rest of the sound.... If you just leave the bass below 80hz at 0 and then EQ everything else down by a few DB's then this gives you better bass and does not affect the sound quality except having more bass... Doesn't really seem to work as well with trying to get rid of sibilance which is inherant to the headphones. I guess the M50 were not actually that bright thinking about it... But the Denon D2000 were definately too bright and sibilant for me.

 

[Thujone]

I haven't listened to the HE-500, so I'm not sure. Out of my headphones, I've had sibilance issues with four of them. My DT770's were the first pair of cans that I noticed it on. Then I got the MS1's and they were just dreadfully sibilant. After modding them, they are perfect. The third pair were my T50RP's which continually had sibilance issues between modding steps. The highs on the HE-400's though... they make the rest of these cans sound muffled. I'm very sensitive to this as well, so you can imagine how upset I was. $400 dollars got me the most annoying pair of headphones and I can visualize my wallet saying "I told you so" -- but I wasn't willing to admit defeat. And so, I started playing with EQ, and you know what? These cans respond so well to EQ that I'm sure I can get just about any FR I want. TMRaven posted some EQ's in the HE-400 thread to get me started and I'm very happy with the versatility of these headphones. The speed and transparency are unmatched by any of my other headphones.
 
Wiped that smile right off my wallet's face.

 

[nicholars]

Mmm I do find that it does spoil the sound quality a bit though when you are messing about with the treble regions... Unless you just EQ above a certain point and leave it flat. Depends which headphones you are using I suppose... Sometimes it is OK. I tried the Beyer DT990 in a shop and they were HORRIBLE.... I was like pure sibilance combined with bass and that was about it. DT770 were not TOO bad but a bit sharp and sibilant sounding I thought.

 

[TMRaven]

Quote:

 
I agree obviously it is simple to do but I find that EQing down treble does not really work very well if the headphones are harsh and peaky / sibilant then they will still sounds harsh / peaky / sibilant just it will be quieter compared to the rest of the sound.... 

 
 
That might be the case with other cans because of resonance and/or distortion problems, but HE-400's treble isn't resonant or distorted, it's just got a lot of it.  Same is true with say-- the DT990.  It's got a lot of treble, but it's a very good quality treble.

 

[beaver316]

I own both the HE-400 and HD 280 pro. Although I haven't put on my 280 pro's in ages because they sound crap, from memory they do have a lot of bass. But imo the HE-400 wipes the floor with the 280 in absolutely every aspect of bass, and sound in general. The HE-400 has better extension, texture, and a more realistic thump. The 280's 'perceived' better bass thump is simply reverberations and reflection of the sound within the cups since it's closed, I think you could call that distortion. But I guess that's the appeal for bassheads. The HE-400 responds very well to bass EQ btw, you can make them vibrate on your head with the right settings.