[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Smallened for you. Pretty conclusive, anyone going to pull the trigger on some cans w/ the net is pretty likely to google 'headphone'. It is photoshopped, Head-fi was below Headphonic[off the page] but on Page 1.

You have to realize that many, if not all, of the commercial sites on that first page have paid for that positioning. I wonder what Head-Fi paid? In all likelihood, 0. So the first page positioning is based upon popularity alone. Pretty impressive.

 

[Tyll Hertsens]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif You have to realize that many, if not all, of the commercial sites on that first page have paid for that positioning. .... Pretty impressive.

The right column and the three yellow background clicks at the top are paid. The HeadRoom click and those below are all unpaid.

Yes, that's impressive. Now, imagine you're a soccer mom and you'r looking for headphones that cost $20 or so and you want good advice. You don't have any idea who Sennheiser or Grado are; you want some advice but want it in about 10 minutes (which means you've got about one minute to find the place you're going to do your reading); and you've never been to an internet forum before. You tell me, is she going to try to figure out what's going on when she hits the Head-Fi button? Yes, Head-Fi certainly has more information than HeadRoom, but it is VERY hard to get at for the average person out there. Hence, Head-Fi has very little influence on low cost headphone sales.

Again, tell me what Head-Fi can do to attract the interest of headphone manufacturers who make their money mostly on lower cost cans?

 

[kwkarth]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif The right column and the three yellow background clicks at the top are paid. The HeadRoom click and those below are all unpaid. Yes, that's impressive. Now, imagine you're a soccer mom and you'r looking for headphones that cost $20 or so and you want good advice. You don't have any idea who Sennheiser or Grado are; you want some advice but want it in about 10 minutes (which means you've got about one minute to find the place you're going to do your reading); and you've never been to an internet forum before. You tell me, is she going to try to figure out what's going on when she hits the Head-Fi button? Yes, Head-Fi certainly has more information than HeadRoom, but it is VERY hard to get at for the average person out there. Hence, Head-Fi has very little influence on low cost headphone sales. Again, tell me what Head-Fi can do to attract the interest of headphone manufacturers who make their money mostly on lower cost cans?

The average soccer mom goes to BB and picks up whatever is on the shelf.
I agree, the true, commodity type, as opposed to the "specialty type" of cans bring in the majority of the $$, and obviously, Head-Fi is not a significant influencer for that tier, except what influence we have over the 14 year olds who browse this site and then go tell their soccer moms what to buy and from whom.

 

[Chri5peed]

15 Soccer Moms buying $20 cans equals me buying one 650.

Also, who is more likely to upgrade?

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tyll Hertsens /img/forum/go_quote.gif The right column and the three yellow background clicks at the top are paid. The HeadRoom click and those below are all unpaid. Yes, that's impressive. Now, imagine you're a soccer mom and you'r looking for headphones that cost $20 or so and you want good advice. You don't have any idea who Sennheiser or Grado are; you want some advice but want it in about 10 minutes (which means you've got about one minute to find the place you're going to do your reading); and you've never been to an internet forum before. You tell me, is she going to try to figure out what's going on when she hits the Head-Fi button? Yes, Head-Fi certainly has more information than HeadRoom, but it is VERY hard to get at for the average person out there. Hence, Head-Fi has very little influence on low cost headphone sales. Again, tell me what Head-Fi can do to attract the interest of headphone manufacturers who make their money mostly on lower cost cans?

Isn't any forum on gear more or less a high(er) end forum? Lets face it. A 20 dollar headphone won't be discussed as much as an orpheus of 5000 dollars.

Are you sure anybody spending 20 bucks cares much for the brand?! He/she will just grab something and be done.

 

[tourmaline]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kwkarth /img/forum/go_quote.gif The average soccer mom goes to BB and picks up whatever is on the shelf. I agree, the true, commodity type, as opposed to the "specialty type" of cans bring in the majority of the $$, and obviously, Head-Fi is not a significant influencer for that tier, except what influence we have over the 14 year olds who browse this site and then go tell their soccer moms what to buy and from whom.

Those 14 year old kids KNOW what they want for christmas or birthday. They get wise very young these days due to internet and all the information available.

Also, at those age they influence eachother more then anything else, like clothes, music etc. So, also brand of headphones and mp3 gear. Yes, i think most youngsters are more leaning towards mp3 these days. they are more interested in looking cool and hip then quality. On the other hand, the older people do care more for quality and take the time for absorbing information about the new purchase.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif 15 Soccer Moms buying $20 cans equals me buying one 650. Also, who is more likely to upgrade?

Who is more likely to lose or break their $20 headphones and grab more pairs before you upgrade?

From everyone I know, people looking for a headphone will walk into Circuit City, Best Buy or the like, and grab something and assume that if the store carries the brand, it must be okay regardless of name recognition. I know of no one outside this forum, other than some musician and recording industry friends, that think beyond what is immediately available, affordable, good-looking, and sounds okay to them (in that order). Most are not even looking for home-use headphones, except for specialized functions such as gaming.

We (head-fi) are not that important when it comes to the masses and major company (Sony, Sennheiser, AKG) business strategies, at least not yet. I do think we're part of trend of people looking for better sound with headphones, etc., which is great, but we're still a geeky forum on the internet. That's not to diminish our part, and companies have taken notice. Look who's showed up, and will again, at the International Meets! But the reality is most consumers have no time, knowledge of, or inclination to hang out here. Even my friends, who love my gear, don't take my advice, laugh at me for my forum interest, and have no desire in getting headphones of their own, except what they can grab from a chain store while out doing other errands--and they buy lots of those (lost under the car seat, broken at the gym, stolen by their kids who lost/broke theirs, etc.). Maybe this will change down the line, but we'll see.

 

[n_maher]

With all it's members, threads and clicks I'd wager Head-Fi is still a pretty small blip on the radar of most large market headphone makers. Like boom said, this may change over time but personally I doubt it as there's no substitute for marketing and in that regard the Boses of the world will always pretty much dominate. I mean seriously, ride the subway, fly on a plane, just look around and observe what other headphones people are using once they move beyond the ubiquitous white buds. Most of what I see are Sony, Bose, a few Shure's E2s and maybe some low end Senns.

Does that mean that Head-Fi isn't a market force? No, but it's a force in the high-end market which in itself is a small market segment.

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who is more likely to lose or break their $20 headphones and grab more pairs before you upgrade?

Yes, but those 15 Soccer Moms have to re-buy like 4 or 5 pairs if I just bought a $500 Amp, $500 DAC, an upgrade cable...

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif Yes, but those 15 Soccer Moms have to re-buy like 4 or 5 pairs if I just bought a $500 Amp, $500 DAC, an upgrade cable...

They do!!! I'm serious. As a middle-aged woman, I know these things. My best friend has bought four pair of cheapo headphones in the past few months alone because she keeps breaking them in her purse or leaving them at the gym. She always asks me what she should get, then drives out and buys the first thing she can snag that looks snazzy while shopping for her family. And this is the same woman that insists that I turn the lights out when she's visiting so she can listen to Pink Floyd (she's very specific on this) with my R10s in the quiet darkness. And besides that, your $500 amp, $500 DAC, and cable upgrade do not interest Sennheiser at all. Why would they? They'd prefer you buy more headphones! I've never replaced my 650s. My friend will probably buy 15 pairs by the time I get rid of them, if I ever do. Plus, I bought them used. Zippo benefit to Sennheiser. All the benefit to me.

 

[slair76116]

Hi guys...well I've read through this whole thread...

I ordered a pair of SENN HD650's from HEADROOM 4 days ago...and when i first did I spoke to a lady there and she was very polite and I not knowing I started telling her that I needed to be sure that the SENN had HD650's drivers in them...she said she will make sure it did before she shipped them....I live prrty far and it's going to cost me a lot to get them shipped and a long time too..

I live in the middle east born and of asian nationality(from sri lanka now in UAE for work) and the Hd650 are my first substantial purchase...haveing seen how this played out..I my-slf would not have gone with senn at least for the forceable future as I am angry at thier lack of response not to this thread and head-fi but to the people who directly contacted them...

I've heard many good things about HEADROOM and would like to thank r tyll for his efforts in finally putting this to rest...

I'm sure the HD650 is my first purchase into audio oblivion as I've been glued to HEAD-fi for a good 3 hours now... but like i said in the future i will be weary at least of senn and try to avoid them if i can..

(and so will my friends here)

 

[Chri5peed]

dp

 

[Chri5peed]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...besides that, your $500 amp, $500 DAC, and cable upgrade do not interest Sennheiser at all. Why would they? They'd prefer you buy more headphones! I've never replaced my 650s. My friend will probably buy 15 pairs by the time I get rid of them, if I ever do. Plus, I bought them used. Zippo benefit to Sennheiser. All the benefit to me.

I'm not on about Sennheiser, I'm saying your regular 650-buyer is worth maybe 15, in this example 'Soccer Moms' to the headphone industry.

I reckon I'd be more highly prized by most HP companies over many regular people. I might buy a DT880 and a K701.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not on about Sennheiser, I'm saying your regular 650-buyer is worth maybe 15, in this example 'Soccer Moms' to the headphone industry. I reckon I'd be more highly prized by most HP companies over many regular people. I might buy a DT880 and a K701.

Yes, but for every 650-ish buyer (assuming they buy new), there are literally hundreds of Soccer Moms buying $20-50 headphones for themselves, for their kids who lost their earbuds again, as stocking-stuffers for Christmas, birthday presents, etc. Then there are hundreds upon thousands of college kids, high school kids, etc. that only buy in this price range. The consumer headphone market for AKG, now Harmon-Kardon, is only a blip on their product radar, and, as with AKG, the consumer market for Beyer, AT, etc. is not where they make their money. It's just the way it is.

If it's any consolation, you are highly prized here.

 

[karma]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chri5peed /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm not on about Sennheiser, I'm saying your regular 650-buyer is worth maybe 15, in this example 'Soccer Moms' to the headphone industry. I reckon I'd be more highly prized by most HP companies over many regular people. I might buy a DT880 and a K701.

I imagine that the marginal cost of marketing/reaching you (or any of us), the high-end buyers, is higher than what it is to reach the average Soccer Mom consumer. In addition, the sheer volume of these Soccer Mom purchases probably makes up for more than any profit margin that they have for the low volume sale of high-end phones.

BTW, thanks, Tyll, for contacting Sennheiser and finally putting the speculation to rest.