[Head Injury]

Quote:

To sum up what I think Head Injury is trying to say:
"That which has been asserted without proof may be dismissed without proof".

No, but that's good too. I don't like "dismissed without proof", as there's plenty of proof that'll hold up until new discoveries are made. "Asserted without proof" is spot on, though.
 
I'm trying to say that it doesn't matter if I hear it or not, because my hearing it does not mean it's real. So experience alone is not proof of anything.

 

[Uncle Erik]

 
Careful now...I suspect one day you'll end up eating crow...
 
If you're so sure, why not go and actually try these cables for yourself. Your opinions hold no water without the requisite experience.

That's why I bought the aftermarket cables, to see if I was missing something. I didn't hear a difference. I could not measure a difference, either. And I do think the associated equipment was good enough - I wasn't running these out of the iPod.

Why is it that believers can hear a difference only until they don't know what they're listening to?

The only reasonable explanation is that the differences are psychological. Further, this psychological bias has been demonstrated a number of times with wine tastings. I don't see why cables are any different.

 

[beeman458]

Head Injury wrote:
 
When real evidence comes out that supports real differences, then I'll call myself wrong openly. However, since I've been asking for that evidence, my position is a little more flexible than those who just ignore all the evidence that's out there now.
 
Personally, I think the wrong thing is being wired up for test.  Since music is an emotional response that can't be tested for at the electronic test level, then what needs to be tested for are the human's brain waves.  Let's see what different parts of the brain lights up with DBT cable changes.
 
A test of this kind, my opinion, will be a better indicator of the truth as opposed to an oscilloscope readout.  In the meantime, I'm in the process of ordering up some way cool looking headphone cables that will look great attached to my headphones.
 
"My headphone cables look better than your cables."
 

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

That's why I bought the aftermarket cables, to see if I was missing something. I didn't hear a difference. I could not measure a difference, either. And I do think the associated equipment was good enough - I wasn't running these out of the iPod.

Why is it that believers can hear a difference only until they don't know what they're listening to?

The only reasonable explanation is that the differences are psychological. Further, this psychological bias has been demonstrated a number of times with wine tastings. I don't see why cables are any different.

You are one of the few with good equipment that doesn't hear the difference with good cables (that I know of). It doesn't rule out the possibility of others being able to hear it. BTW, depending on the cable, I can pass a DBT if I know the recording well enough to discern differences. It's difficult with cables made of the same material, but when switching from copper to silver, I can consistently pick out the cable because of the noticeable increase in speed/transient response in the bass.

 

[Young Spade]

Quote:

You are one of the few with good equipment that doesn't hear the difference with good cables (that I know of). It doesn't rule out the possibility of others being able to hear it. BTW, depending on the cable, I can pass a DBT if I know the recording well enough to discern differences. It's difficult with cables made of the same material, but when switching from copper to silver, I can consistently pick out the cable because of the noticeable increase in speed/transient response in the bass.

x2 concerning the differentiating between cables of different material. Copper vs silver was night and day for me back when I had my Triples. Of course it was less discerning between the stock and Blue-Dragon cables with my K702s but I can instantly hear the differences when using the Blue-Dragon. 
 

 

[BIG POPPA]

 I have had my HD580's for 3 1/2 years. I have swapped several cables over hundreds of hours. So yeah I do have a lot experience with them with no desire to upgrade them anytime soon.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

x2 concerning the differentiating between cables of different material. Copper vs silver was night and day for me back when I had my Triples. Of course it was less discerning between the stock and Blue-Dragon cables with my K702s but I can instantly hear the differences when using the Blue-Dragon. 
 

 
I'm sure you meant to say Silver Dragon in the last sentence.
I owned the Blue Dragon V3 for the HD650 and my experience matches yours.

 

[BIG POPPA]

This is why I respect your opinion. You tried cables on your rig. You didn't get the results you were looking for? Not everybody does? But you have done more than most!
Quote:

That's why I bought the aftermarket cables, to see if I was missing something. I didn't hear a difference. I could not measure a difference, either. And I do think the associated equipment was good enough - I wasn't running these out of the iPod.

Why is it that believers can hear a difference only until they don't know what they're listening to?

The only reasonable explanation is that the differences are psychological. Further, this psychological bias has been demonstrated a number of times with wine tastings. I don't see why cables are any different.

 

[MrProggie]

Quote:

That's why I bought the aftermarket cables, to see if I was missing something. I didn't hear a difference. I could not measure a difference, either. And I do think the associated equipment was good enough - I wasn't running these out of the iPod.

Why is it that believers can hear a difference only until they don't know what they're listening to?

The only reasonable explanation is that the differences are psychological. Further, this psychological bias has been demonstrated a number of times with wine tastings. I don't see why cables are any different.

 
Probably because if they have heard a song many times using one cable, they are able to hear differences when they suddenly are switching cable.  They need to know a song through and through first. That's my theory anyway.
 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Probably because if they have heard a song many times using one cable, they are able to hear differences when they suddenly are switching cable.  They need to know a song through and through first. That's my theory anyway.
 

 
How about this effect?
 
Arocdnicg to rsceearch at Cmabrigde Uinervtisy, it deosn’t mttaer in waht oredr the ltteers in a wrod are, the olny iprmoatnt tihng is taht the frist and lsat ltteer are in the rghit pcale. The rset can be a toatl mses and you can sitll raed it wouthit pobelrm. Tihs is buseace the huamn mnid deos not raed ervey lteter by istlef, but the wrod as a wlohe.
 
We can also do this with sentences where familiar words have letters missing.  What does this sort of phenomenon say for our hearing and DBT's when we switch back and forth and somehow are having trouble discerning differences we can otherwise hear under different circumstances?
 
When I got my HD800's, I heard details jump at me in tunes in ways I had not noticed before.  The details just showed themselves without effort.  I put on my HD650's, I listen out for the details and there they are, though not as obvious.  I do sit wondering when this happens to me if I had just missed the details and needed them pointed out to me.  Were the details put there by my mind that expects to hear them, or could it be a mixture of both.  Do either of these factors vary in contribution when deliberating intensely over subtle difference tests.  Can one be trained to see beyond this sort of influence?
 
Anyone else notice that two signatures may initially sound different and as you switch back and forth between them, the difference reduces in level and may even become difficult to discern?

 

[beeman458]

Can one be trained to see beyond this sort of influence?
 
Yes, it's called the U.S. Navy sonar school.
 

 

[aimlink]

Quote:

Can one be trained to see beyond this sort of influence?
 
Yes, it's called the U.S. Navy sonar school.
 

Really?  Would you elaborate.  Are you saying that what I'm experiencing as I'm describing and concluding, is legitimate?  I really can't confirm this either way now.  It's my own interpretation of my personal experiences.

 

[beeman458]

Really?  Would you elaborate.
 
There's nothing really to elaborate.
 
The navy tests "all" it's new recruits in mass.  Well they did when I volunteered in 1971.  Those who have a particularly keen sense of hearing go for further testing.  Those who's hearing tests out the best of the best, go on to extensive training; sonar school.
 
I guess you could say that your HD-800's taught you how to hear so now you know what to listen for.  Training.
 
Yesterday, I listened to a set of bookshelf speakers.  They were horrible.  A short while later, I heard a $55,000 tube record system, it was wonderful.  When I got home and put my headphones on, I had to jack the gain up about 6db on the 2k treble setting of the graphic equalizer, just so I wouldn't want to trash my HD-650's when compared to the $55k system.  Sometimes, being ignorant isn't such a bad thing.
 

 

[BIG POPPA]

I have several reference CD's. There are passages I look for to compare anything. Senn cables are some of the easiest things to compare.

 

[Shahrose]

Quote:

Probably because if they have heard a song many times using one cable, they are able to hear differences when they suddenly are switching cable.  They need to know a song through and through first. That's my theory anyway.
 

 
This is actually true. I remember someone citing a study that stated this. I wish I could find it (it was on Head-Fi).