[orbv12]

Greetings,
 
I have recently broken into the audiophile community and have been lurking for a while now. I have decided to purchase my first setup. I originally decided on the HD 650s from Sennheiser because of their great value. They seem like a great set of headphones for the price. I have read many reviews and recommendations on DACs and Amps to go with them. I was originally looking at buying the Darkvoice 336SE + Zero DAC + HD 650s, but recently discovered I can get a pair of HD 800s for a GREAT price. I cannot disclose the price I was offered, but it is low enough for me to want to jump.
 
I feel that with my first setup I might not truly appreciate the quality of the HD 800s. Also, I will not be able to afford a very good DAC and amp. I would most likely be using the Zero DAC and Darkvoice 336SE with the HD 800s as well. With that being said, what do you folks recommend?
 
I feel that I would be more than satisfied with a pair of HD650s + Zero DAC + Darkvoice 336SE. Then again, if I fork out some extra cash and get the HD 800s instead, I can always upgrade the DAC and amp in the future.
 
Any input would be greatly appreciated.
 
EDIT: If there is anyone with a pair of HD 800s around DFW, TX (and you wouldn't mind me checking these out) please PM me. I would love to test these out.
 
Question: I will be starting out with no amp and no DAC at this point. Is there any reason to not choose the HD 800s?

 

[DjAmTraX]

Be prepared to spend some money to get the most out of the HD800. IMO, those are very picky cans. I've tried it on with PS Audio GCHA amp, Bellari HA540 and neither sounded like a good match. I ordered a Lehmann Black Cube Linear to see if it could make the HD800 sing. A lot of people say it should be a good match so we'll see.
I think the HD800 is a GREAT headphone, but just not one that's easy to please.

 

[jasonb]

i say 650, but i'm biased.

 

[pp312]

If the price on the 800 is that great, get it to try and sell if you don't like it.
 
That said, I think the 650 is unbearable value at its price.

 

[Bilavideo]

Buy the HD800 if you can get it at a great price.  You can always upgrade your amp.  Unamped, they're still great headphones. You won't get the most out of them under-amped but so what?  Wouldn't it be great to know you own one of the most revered sets of cans out there and that all you need to worry about now is the quality of your amp?
 
I have owned the HD800.  While I'm a Grado lover, I found the HD800 to be an incredible headphone.  Even under-amped (I initially ran it right off my iPod), I found its speed and soundstage utterly amazing.  It took a decent amp to rediscovery some of its greatest strengths, including bass which is not emphasized but which drives very, very low.
 
Why buy a lesser headphone just to match it to a crappy amp?  I've also owned the HD650, which I liked very much - and which is a better value when you consider how easy it is to pick one up used for less than $250.  Still, the HD650 is not nearly as good a headphone as the HD800.  If you don't $1,400 to spend on an HD800, the HD650 will provide many hours of listening pleasure, but if finances were to make the HD800 feasible, it would be stupid to buy an HD650 instead.

 

[renlute]

Both are among the most highly regarded among audiophiles. But ..... any chance of being able to try and compare the two phones before you buy? On music that constitutes your primary listening material? They don't sound exactly the same. Your ears are the ultimate arbiter of your musical and audio tastes, though the latter can develop and change.
 
That being said, I agree with the recommendations above to spring for the 800s as long as you have an unbeatable deal that you may not get later. If you get infected by the same audiophile virus that rages among most of us here, you will soon feel the need for more phones and more amps whether you need them or not.
 
As for inexperience, fret not. Here's a simple test to assure yourself that your ears don't lie. Compare either or both of these (or any of the better audiophile phones from other vendors) to a really cheap or mediocre pair of phones, alternating on the same musical pieces. The pieces should of course be well recorded and the sound source respectable. That's a drastic example, but from what I've heard about the 650 (I've never tried one myself, only the 800), you'll hear distinctions between good phones as well.

 

[orbv12]

Bilavideo, I find your input very interesting. There was a review on the HD800s that may not fully agree with your comment. One of the points of the reviews suggested that if you are not prepared to get a system to match the HD800s then don't bother. This came off as an experienced tone. I highly doubt the HD800s will sound worse than my Logitech G35 headphones even without an amp or DAC.
 
Am I wrong to say that even in the absence of a DAC and amp, the HD800s would be a noticeable upgrade to a cheap pair of Logitech G35s?
 
EDIT: renlute, I have listened to a pair of HD650s powered by a Darkvoice amp and found them to be amazing. Unfortunately I was not able to reference them immediately and could not make a very good judgment based on my brief listening experience with them. I would have no idea where I could test the HD800s.

 

[renlute]

If you live in a metropolitan area there are HD800 owners around who would probably like to let you hear what you've been missing. Check the Local Meets section on this forum for upcoming get-togethers, or watch members' profiles to find some fellow headphone enthusiasts in your area. I heard the HD800 at Bay Area meets this year, and at the upcoming one next February I will seek out and compare the 600 and 650 out of curiosity. You could also call Sennheiser or check their website to see where you can listen to their demo cans.
 
Your question prompted me to try something I never did before: I hooked up my AKG K702 (AKG's high-end phone at present), which is notorious for needing a lot of power to drive, to my old low-end Dell Inspiron laptop with no soundcard, just an onboard audio chip. The onboard speaker sounds vile, tinny, never intended for music of course. With the AKG cans I listened to a piece of pop music with heavy bass drum and bass guitar in the foreground, and to a Renaissance wind band. Both pieces sounded surprisingly good, easily loud enough on the K702, and with plenty of bass, in fact quite prominent bass. I don't think this is supposed to happen at head-fi. Careful listening and comparison with a better playback source and better amplification would doubtless reveal deficiencies but hey, it's a matter of degrees.
 
I then plugged in an inexpensive Koss i50 headset that I'd bought long ago to use not for music but for online telephone use. It actually sounds pretty good, again a quite assertive bass. The main difference I note in a quick comparison is more annoying sibilance in the Koss headset, though there is some in the K702 also that may stem from upstream -- the stock Dell CD/DVD player, and/or the audio chip, or the musical sources themselves, or all the above.
 
Right now as I write I am enjoying a CD of a 15th-century mass by Dufay on the K702 and the laptop, recorded in an 18th century hall in Pavia, Italy. I hear the reverberation on both headphones, but I don't have the sense of being in the concert hall that people here rave about with the better systems. The reproduction is doubtless much superior with all-audiophile components, but not offensive on the laptop (except for the sibilance).
 
Music majors typically don't have the caliber of sound system that their scientist and engineer friends have, but they (=we, I have music degrees) still enjoy listening to other people's music on less than optimal systems when necessary.

 

[Uncle Erik]

I owned the HD-650 for a few years and really loved it. I was initially opposed to the HD-800 because of its cost and didn't think it would offer much improvement over the HD-650. But when I was offered the chance to A/B the HD-650 with the HD-800 at CanJam '09, I was surprised to find the HD-800 better. After a lot of thought, I sold the HD-650 and several other pairs to fund a HD-800. About 18 months on, I'm glad I did. I find the HD-800 to be one of the finest headphones I've had the pleasure to listen to.

So, yes, I recommend the HD-800. It is an excellent headphone.

I do not know if it would pair well with a Darkvoice. I've run mine from a Zana Deux and a Moth Si2A3, and am extremely pleased with the pairings. Of course, you could always get a better amp later. The consideration is that the HD-800 is picky about amplification. I don't know if you'd find it to sound bad with a Darkvoice.

 

[fdhfdy]

I have both, they are not in the same level. However, hd 650s sound better with bcl than hd 800s do

 

[MDR30]

Renlute - which Dufay recording were you listening to?

 

[gasgasy]

Audio manufacturers from among the finest in the "World's Best Headphones makes" Sennheiser HD800. Audiophile 650 HD open, dynamic headphone design is final.

 

[renlute]

@mdr30: Guillaume Du Fay, Missa Sancti Jacobi recorded by La Reverdie (Arcana 2006)

 

[orbv12]

I think I am going to grab the HD 650s and start with the ASUS Xonar Essence STX to drive them. I will eventually upgrade to a good DAC and amp. I don't really know if I will make audio a huge hobby so I can't really justify spending too much money on a pair of phones yet. Thank you everyone for the replies, they have been a great help in my decision.

 

[Bones13]

I was extremely happy with my HD650 / RSA Raptor System.  Excellent, balanced sound signature, could change it by tube rolling.  Lavry Black DAC back then.
 
I got the HD800 soon after the first reviews came in.  While a bit clearer than the 650 via the Raptor, I was initially unimpressed, as were others.  After bumping up my system to balanced (PSAudio DLIII DAC/RSA Apache AMP), then the HD800 became head and shoulders and then some better than my original system.  And while I don't have the wide experience that some have here, I think it would take a LOT more money to sound better to me.
 
In short, I agree with the advice here, that you will be underwhelmed if you get the HD800 and less than stellar source and amp, and will be better served with the HD650 and appropriate source/amp.  There is a great used market for gear of all levels here.  You certainly could get some great deals on both buying and eventually selling most stuff here.