[slwiser]

Agreed...it is a winner for that price point and possibly a little higher especially with all the additional features such as line router and amp.

 

[vorlon1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Today, September 20, 2008 vorlon1 and I met to look into the performance of the Beresford TC7510 DAC/AMP. This unit was graciously loaned by Breakfastchef following a few unflattering comments by various Head-Fiers on the Beresford unit. Rob (vorlon1) and I discussed the possibility of comparing the Beresford with the output of both a Denon DVD-NS300 and O1 AMP/DAC. However before we new it, we had quite a few pieces of gear.

I agree with Miguel that the Beresford is a very nice sounding unit, both the amp alone and the DAC also. The DAC was far superior to the output of the Sony source. Much greater clarity and presence. The overall tonality of the sound was similar to the CI, but did not have the depth or air of the CI, but it was quite a nice sounding unit at a killer price.

The EF-1 sounded quite musical and smooth, with a nice crisp high end with the Chinese tube, while with my vintage Amperex it sounded quite dull. I suspect this is a function of the design of the amp, because I use these vintage amperex tubes on my Singlepower Extreme and they sound fantastic, very smooth, atmospheric and with a detailed, but not harsh high end. I suspected that the Chinese 12 AU 7 would be too treble heavy in the Singlepower, but to my surprise it sounded quite decent, but without the subtlety or smoothness in the mids of the amperex. The EF-1 just does not mate well with the amperex, however. I will post more about the Novo later after it has more burn in, but I will say that it sounds quite good in my home system, better than it sounded to me this afternoon when Miguel and I got together with the gear we were using at that time. {New information 24 hours later}: In my home system with 2 other vinatage Amperex 12 AU 7s the EF-1 sounds terrific. Smooth and liquid as hell, but with really nice clarity up top, just the way most of those amperex's usually sound in decent amps. The Chinese tube Miguel has still sounds quite decent which very much surprises me, since every Chinese tube I have ever had made the amps they were in unlistenable. This is an excellent sounding little amplifier.

 

[AS1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyB1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif May I point out that I received a What HIFI 5 Star award, and a resume of the test results in their November issue can be found at Beresford TC-7510 review – whathifi.com . With several thousands users out there and all around the world, I must be doing something right . Stanley

So? It's just a review of the TC-7510 without comparing it to other DACs.
For its price it may deserve 5 stars. Sure. I'd actually recommend it.
But when you got a bigger budget get something better and buy used.

 

[StanleyB1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AS1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif So? It's just a review of the TC-7510 without comparing it to other DACs.

The on-line review is just a resume of the magazine article.The magazine version has it in a test against other DACs. Due to the fact that the article has a copyright notice, I am legally prevented from reproducing its content. However, anyone in possession of the November issue would be able to read the full group test.

I recall however that a number of people have written that they did not consider the TC-7510 to be a serious product, since it had only been getting mentions on the internet, and in particular on Head-Fi. They felt that a review by a HIFI magazine with a large circulation from a major publishing house would be a far more honest and non-fanboy method to judge the real worth of the TC-7510.
Now that that criteria has been fulfilled, and with a 5 star rating at the end of its conclusion, would you consider it a fair assumption on my part that you are not happy with the new location of the goal post

?

 

[AS1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyB1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I recall however that a number of people have written that they did not consider the TC-7510 to be a serious product...

I've never seen anything like that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyB1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif Now that that criteria has been fulfilled, and with a 5 star rating at the end of its conclusion, would you consider it a fair assumption on my part that you are not happy with the new location of the goal post ?

Interesting how you turn this around. On this forum we don't take magazines seriously, and with good reason. They have an agenda. They want fancy writing. They think Bose is good.

Go figure!
This forum is far more reliable than those commercial magasines.

 

[mrarroyo]

AS1, I do not know what your beef is but you sure are comming through as if you have something to loose if the Beresford TC7510 sells well.

I have listened to it the Beresford TC7510 and IMO and that of vorlon1 it is one heck of a deal at $200. I have not listened to a Bel Canto but at its cost of many times the cost of the Beresford I certainly would hope it sounds better than the TC7510.

 

[AS1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif AS1, I do not know what your beef is but you sure are comming through as if you have something to loose if the Beresford TC7510 sells well.

I'm just being critical. Isn't that allowed?

I already told more than once that I would recommended a Beresford if one is on a budget.

 

[penguindude]

Many members on this forum seem to have a grudge against lower-priced products. I have personally owned a Beresford MK3 and the sound was very good indeed for less than $200 shipped.

 

[skeptic]

I would really like to see a review that compares the beresford to other component dac's in its price range. I've read mixed reviews of the O1, and it simply doesn't seem like an ideal basis for comparison in this instance.

In order to determine whether or not the beresford is truly a good value, in an objective sense, we need a shoot out among the common sub $500 dacs: beresford, zero, keces, paradesia (with the right tubes), scott-nixon, and maybe a used ack! dac and an ori modded zhalou.

I keep hoping I'll stumble on something of this kind, but to date, the major head-fi comparisons all seem to focus on amplification, largely disregarding sources.

 

[supernerd]

I don't know why there is so much animosity towards people who make criticisms of the Beresford dac. It's as if owners of the dac have a chip on their shoulder and jump all over people who are simply being slightly sceptical of some of the claims made of the dac.

Now I know this is my third post and all the conspiracy theorists will jump all over that, but I've been lurking for quite a while researching dacs. As you're all aware - it's not like you can go to your local hifi shop to audition a dac. Purchases are largely based on user opinions, the specs of the dac and most importantly blind faith.

With this in mind - comments like "Beresford performance far exceeds its modest asking price and is a close match to even some £5K" isn't really that helpful. If I had some ear plugs on - heck the Beresford will sound better than the 5k dac. I would rather know about the power supply, receiver chip, dac chip and analogue implementation. The Beresford is silent in all of those areas. I know that there's a money back guarantee - however, there's a hefty amount that has to be paid in postage as well as the inconvenience factor - so no thanks.

While getting 5 stars on what hifi is an achievement - it doesn't really say much about the product compared to others, because lets face it, what hifi gives every other product 5 stars.

Now I don't have one of those uber expensive - I've sold my right testical and my left kidney and mortgaged my house - sound system. Chances are the sonic differences observed between dacs in that mid-price range will mostly be in the head.

So I've been turned off the Beresford dac and ordered myself a Keces 131 (arriving next week). Have nfi what it'll sound like, but at least I won't end up like those tragics who monitor the Beresford thread like a hawk and jump on those who dare criticise the dac.

 

[StanleyB1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by supernerd /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't know why there is so much animosity towards people who make criticisms of the Beresford dac. It's as if owners of the dac have a chip on their shoulder and jump all over people who are simply being slightly sceptical of some of the claims made of the dac. Chances are the sonic differences observed between dacs in that mid-price range will mostly be in the head. So I've been turned off the Beresford dac and ordered myself a Keces 131 (arriving next week). Have nfi what it'll sound like, but at least I won't end up like those tragics who monitor the Beresford thread like a hawk and jump on those who dare criticise the dac.

If you had done your research properly you would have noticed that the animosity is quite the other way round

. Beresford bashing has been happening on this and various other web sites over the last few years. This particular thread is the only one I know of of the internet where so many Beresford owners have spoken in favour of their DAC against any criticism.

We can talk chips, power supply, etc. But any sensible audiophile knows that those sort of things don't tell you anything about the SQ. Even price is no guarantee about the sound. Based on specification alone, the humble bumble bee is not supposed to be able to fly. And valve amps would have been consigned to history by now. Digital and flat panel speakers would be all the rage, and terrestrial digital TV pictures would be interference free and easy to receive with even a short piece of wires. And Vista would be far superior to XP in every way.

If you live in the UK and you can get your hands on some midrange priced DACs, I am willing to send you a unit to test and pay postage both ways so that you can decide for yourself if the Beresford is just as good as any other DAC in its price range, or is a giant slayer. Heck, I'll even throw in the cost of a crate of Budweiser or a box of Earl Gray to offset your time spent testing.
Maybe you can do a mini test between the Keces and the Beresford

.

 

[StanleyB1]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AS1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm just being critical. Isn't that allowed? I already told more than once that I would recommended a Beresford if one is on a budget.

I think the problem is AS1 that you had the MK5. Since then the circuitry has been redesigned and many changes were implemented in the MK6. So the sound signature of the MK5 and the MK6/3 are not the same. What if I sent you the latest version to test against your Bel Canto DAC2?

 

[supernerd]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyB1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif We can talk chips, power supply, etc. But any sensible audiophile knows that those sort of things don't tell you anything about the SQ. Even price is no guarantee about the sound. Based on specification alone, the humble bumble bee is not supposed to be able to fly. And valve amps would have been consigned to history by now. Digital and flat panel speakers would be all the rage, and terrestrial digital TV pictures would be interference free and easy to receive with even a short piece of wires. And Vista would be far superior to XP in every way.

That's very generous of you, but I live very far from the UK. I also have no doubt that your dac is a good product, and some of the criticisms are slightly over the top (I probably subconsciously ignored them when reading); but some of the replies defending the the dac have been particularly vicious.

The only problem is that the $300 dac market is incredibly congested, and absent the ability to test them, well I'll take specs over some guy claiming "I have just rediscovered my music collection" or "it's like a veil has been lifted."

You seem like a really nice guy - and my comments were certainly not directed at you. I actually hope your product does well - but its not for me.

 

[tfarney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by StanleyB1 /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you had done your research properly you would have noticed that the animosity is quite the other way round . Beresford bashing has been happening on this and various other web sites over the last few years. This particular thread is the only one I know of of the internet where so many Beresford owners have spoken in favour of their DAC against any criticism. We can talk chips, power supply, etc. But any sensible audiophile knows that those sort of things don't tell you anything about the SQ. Even price is no guarantee about the sound. Based on specification alone, the humble bumble bee is not supposed to be able to fly. And valve amps would have been consigned to history by now. Digital and flat panel speakers would be all the rage, and terrestrial digital TV pictures would be interference free and easy to receive with even a short piece of wires. And Vista would be far superior to XP in every way. If you live in the UK and you can get your hands on some midrange priced DACs, I am willing to send you a unit to test and pay postage both ways so that you can decide for yourself if the Beresford is just as good as any other DAC in its price range, or is a giant slayer. Heck, I'll even throw in the cost of a crate of Budweiser or a box of Earl Gray to offset your time spent testing. Maybe you can do a mini test between the Keces and the Beresford .

I've followed this issue for awhile, opening every thread that bears the Beresford name, and I've got to agree with Stanley on this one. There seems to be a weird negativity toward this product on this particular board. If one over-enthusiastic poster caused it, boy, that's unfortunate. What if there was a long string of irrationally negative, almost personal posts against LD because of Penchum's obvious over-enthusiasm for them? Oh...nevermind...

I'm a seeker of the piece that hits way above it's weight. I enthusiastically do NOT believe, particularly in the audiophile world, that "you get what you pay for" is a truism. On the contrary, this hobby is so full of puff and false heat -- from manufacturers and users alike -- that I believe it is one of the most likely places to find true giant killers. Good components, great design and a simple lack of BS should be able to deliver amps and DACs that out-perform lots of overblown, over-priced audiophile products. If I had the funds, I'd buy most of the products that get labeled as giant killers and throw back the losers. That's the way I see it, anyway, and it makes it fairly easy for me to believe that Beresford could have something extraordinary. YMMV.

I'll probably have to have a Beresford someday. Or perhaps a stock MagicDAC.

Tim

 

[McPanse]

Stanley,

I'll test the Beresford's DAC performance against the Citypulse 7.2 and its head amp performance against the 7.2 and Little Dot MKIV if you are willing to send it to the U.S.

Heck, I might even consider splitting postage depending on what that would run me...