[Rhamnetin]

What are you using now?

It's in my signature and profile, the Mjolnir Audio Pure BiPolar.

 

[mandrake50]

Sounds nice.. but the descriptions I found say balanced in and out only...?
Thought that was the problem with the Beta for you.

 

[Rhamnetin]

Sounds nice.. but the descriptions I found say balanced in and out only...?
Thought that was the problem with the Beta for you.

It uses super symmetry inputs to convert SE in to balanced out, the best method I know of to convert SE signal to balanced too, no use of opamps or anything like that.

When getting a balanced amp (so this applies to the H20 too), it's always good to figure out how the amp handles a single ended input. Not sure what the H20 does.

 

[mandrake50]

If I am not mistaken, those are the two op amps that people like to swap out. SE Input...

I bought the Sparko opamps. I haven't tried them yet as I figured it shouldn't make any differences as I have been using it with the balanced inputs.

 

[Alcophone]

Alcophone is saying that this amp is dicey in supporting easily driven headphones like the LCD-X. It almost sounds like the gain doesn't work. Anyone using this amp with an LCD-X or Hifiman Edition X?

lol, I was merely pointing out that with my Ether C Flow, I'm setting the volume really low for a good volume, meaning I already don't have that many volume steps available (though still enough). The LCD-X is even more efficient, so you might not be able to adjust the volume as freely as you want, at least using the balanced output. Emphasis on "might".

 

[Alcophone]

I'll skip on the Beta. Tight on money and my quick google search made that seem a little questionable. Thanks for the thought though.

I've signed up for the drop but see no indicator of how close the drop is. Thought it would show how many more people need to request it. A weird way to drop, by the way. Can't you get a bunch of people who won't buy requesting just so it drops?

Here's the drop link for funsies: http://dro.ps/b/sef84OM5MtVO/l

People can request a drop to indicate interest, but there's never a guarantee that it happens again. Massdrop has to approach the partners, everyone has to agree to do it, and then it either happens or doesn't.

Last two or three drops were $799.99 + sales tax with free shipping, three required to join in order for it to go through. Interest has been low, so even if this drops again, you might not find enough others.

But the discount basically buys you two Sparkos SS3602s for $70s if you still get the new customer discount.

 

[rutter]

I went ahead and got a Sennheiser HDVA 600.

 

[Alcophone]

To get an idea of the clicky noises when turning the volume knob, take a look at this video at ~7 minutes in:



This is the Schiit Freya, which has 128 steps, so it sounds more hectic than the Gustard H20 with its 64 steps, but you get the idea. I didn't even notice it for the first few days while wearing headphones, until someone on Massdrop mentioned it.

 

[mandrake50]

Any longevity concerns given the H10 predecessor? Do you guys know whether it's recommended to keep the amp constantly on or not?

I have had my H10 for, what 4 years? It is still doing fine. I have other amps, so it has not been my every day amp, But it has lots of hours on it. I was active on the H10 thread for a long time. It is pretty dead now. But there were few issues reported.
I don't leave anything turned on 24/7. Maybe because I don't listen often enough, but I like to think it is not required. Some equipment seems to be very sensitive to being thermally stabilized. I have never found amplifiers to be in that group.
Some DACS, maybe, but even then any that I have used do not change after an hour or so of being on. I do not leave my H20 on all of the time. I really do not hear much difference at all between initial power on and 6 hours later. Beyond that, I don't care.
I refuse to pay for long time power use to maybe achieve a couple of percent difference in sound. I look at this like many things related as "required" on HF. Mostly imagined urban legend passed down from those that claim to be experts to those who know no better.

 

[mandrake50]

Alcophone is saying that this amp is dicey in supporting easily driven headphones like the LCD-X. It almost sounds like the gain doesn't work. Anyone using this amp with an LCD-X or Hifiman Edition X?

I use it with the He1K and have no issues with having adequate volume control range. Same with the He560, He400i, K7XX... Which is about all I have used it with. Much of this has to do with the drive level it is getting. Reduce that and you have more travel before you get to the desired listening level. Specs say it is no more sensitive than what I generally see in amps. I do admit that the gain switch seems to have less effect than many. But I tend to always use low gain when possible... which it almost always is adequate.... I don't fixate on where the volume control sits when I get to my preferred listening level. As long as I can get it low enough and high enough to suit me with a given headphone. So far, so good with the H20.
So I don't know what Alcophone is doing differently than what I am doing, but I am curious.

 

[Alcophone]

I don't know what Alcophone is doing differently than what I am doing, but I am curious.

@rutter: Please edit your post to more accurately reflect what I was trying to say, people are clearly getting the wrong impression.
@mandrake50: Please see this post:

I was merely pointing out that with my Ether C Flow, I'm setting the volume really low for a good volume, meaning I already don't have that many volume steps available (though still enough). The LCD-X is even more efficient, so you might not be able to adjust the volume as freely as you want, at least using the balanced output. Emphasis on "might".

I use it with the He1K and have no issues with having adequate volume control range. Same with the He560, He400i, K7XX...

Are you using all of them with either the 4-pin XLR output or the two 3-pin XLR outputs? The balanced outputs are the only ones I'm concerned about. I have used the Focal Listen on the single ended outputs (though only briefly) and haven't noticed any issues, despite it being substantially more sensitive than all of your headphones.
The most sensitive of yours is the AKG K7xx, and it is slightly more sensitive than the LCD-X, so that would be really helpful for @rutter's case. If you're driving them balanced and never feel like you have to choose between the volume being either too high or too low, that's a good indicator that he won't have that issue, either. Assuming your DAC is feeding a usual signal level - what DAC are you using? How did you connect it to the H20?

From least sensitive to most:
HiFiMan HE1000: 35 ohms, 90 dB
HiFiMan HE560: 45 ohms, 90 dB
HiFiMan HE400i: 35 ohms, 93 dB
MrSpeakers Ether C Flow: 23 ohms, 96 dB
Audeze LCD-X: 20 ohms, 103 dB
AKG K7xx: 62 ohms, 105 dB
Focal Listen: 32 ohms, 122 dB

Much of this has to do with the drive level it is getting. Reduce that and you have more travel before you get to the desired listening level.

What do you mean by drive level? Voltage level of the DAC, or gain setting? The former is tricky if you want to feed your DAC a bitperfect signal, otherwise you could adjust the volume in your player, true.

Specs say it is no more sensitive than what I generally see in amps.

Sorry, what does it mean for an amp to be sensitive?

I do admit that the gain switch seems to have less effect than many. But I tend to always use low gain when possible... which it almost always is adequate....

The gain settings help a little, but yeah, as you say, not a whole lot. I am using the high gain mode, because I have heard that often low gain means additional attenuation, so high gain is possible the "purer" mode, and since the volume range isn't that different either way, I might as well.

I don't fixate on where the volume control sits when I get to my preferred listening level. As long as I can get it low enough and high enough to suit me with a given headphone. So far, so good with the H20.

Same here! I didn't even notice it has a relay stepped attenuator for the first few days, the volume levels are certainly fine enough for me. 64 steps didn't seem like much to me given the power this amp has, but in my case it works out well enough. I'm just not sure how far away from too little adjustability I am.

 

[mandrake50]

@rutter: Please edit your post to more accurately reflect what I was trying to say, people are clearly getting the wrong impression.
@mandrake50: Please see this post:




Are you using all of them with either the 4-pin XLR output or the two 3-pin XLR outputs? The balanced outputs are the only ones I'm concerned about. I have used the Focal Listen on the single ended outputs (though only briefly) and haven't noticed any issues, despite it being substantially more sensitive than all of your headphones.
The most sensitive of yours is the AKG K7xx, and it is slightly more sensitive than the LCD-X, so that would be really helpful for @rutter's case. If you're driving them balanced and never feel like you have to choose between the volume being either too high or too low, that's a good indicator that he won't have that issue, either. Assuming your DAC is feeding a usual signal level - what DAC are you using? How did you connect it to the H20?

From least sensitive to most:
HiFiMan HE1000: 35 ohms, 90 dB
HiFiMan HE560: 45 ohms, 90 dB
HiFiMan HE400i: 35 ohms, 93 dB
MrSpeakers Ether C Flow: 23 ohms, 96 dB
Audeze LCD-X: 20 ohms, 103 dB
AKG K7xx: 62 ohms, 105 dB
Focal Listen: 32 ohms, 122 dB


What do you mean by drive level? Voltage level of the DAC, or gain setting? The former is tricky if you want to feed your DAC a bitperfect signal, otherwise you could adjust the volume in your player, true.


Sorry, what does it mean for an amp to be sensitive?


The gain settings help a little, but yeah, as you say, not a whole lot. I am using the high gain mode, because I have heard that often low gain means additional attenuation, so high gain is possible the "purer" mode, and since the volume range isn't that different either way, I might as well.


Same here! I didn't even notice it has a relay stepped attenuator for the first few days, the volume levels are certainly fine enough for me. 64 steps didn't seem like much to me given the power this amp has, but in my case it works out well enough. I'm just not sure how far away from too little adjustability I am.

I am using the 4 pin balanced out. I currently am driving it with the unbalanced out from a Burson CV2+. But fired up the balanced out from a Pulse Se. I have only had it a couple of weeks BTW. Still more playing to be done
Sensitive meaning the input level required for o DB. Most are 2 volts, some less. Everything I have used it wit has variable outputs. No digital attenuation required. But this bit perfect thing ... Foobar... for instance as with many devices using digital volume controls uses 64 bits for attenuation. Meaning you can reduce output by around 18 DB and never touch a 24 bit files significant bits. So it depends on what you are playing with I guess. In any case, using the ESS DAC volume line out control on the CV2 maxed out, using Foobar as a source with no attenuation and balanced output form the H20, I have not had a situation where I could not adjust the volume adequately. I have not run into channel imbalance (as one should not with the H20 volume control system) nor needed to run the control over about 12 O" Clock on the H20. In other words, totally adequate travel from the H20 volume control.
I don't think it should be a problem with the LCD 4. No idea with the hyper efficient Listen (having never listened to them) . Nor have I tried using any of my more efficient IEMs. But if one does not use any of the latter, I just don't think there is an issue.

So yeah, somebody with some combination of gear "might" have a problem. But I doubt it.

Thanks for taking the time to do the elaborate reply.

 

[Alcophone]

I am using the 4 pin balanced out. I currently am driving it with the unbalanced out from a Burson CV2+. But fired up the balanced out from a Pulse Se. I have only had it a couple of weeks BTW. Still more playing to be done
Sensitive meaning the input level required for o DB. Most are 2 volts, some less. Everything I have used it wit has variable outputs. No digital attenuation required. But this bit perfect thing ... Foobar... for instance as with many devices using digital volume controls uses 64 bits for attenuation. Meaning you can reduce output by around 18 DB and never touch a 24 bit files significant bits. So it depends on what you are playing with I guess. In any case, using the ESS DAC volume line out control on the CV2 maxed out, using Foobar as a source with no attenuation and balanced output form the H20, I have not had a situation where I could not adjust the volume adequately. I have not run into channel imbalance (as one should not with the H20 volume control system) nor needed to run the control over about 12 O" Clock on the H20. In other words, totally adequate travel from the H20 volume control.
I don't think it should be a problem with the LCD 4. No idea with the hyper efficient Listen (having never listened to them) . Nor have I tried using any of my more efficient IEMs. But if one does not use any of the latter, I just don't think there is an issue.

So yeah, somebody with some combination of gear "might" have a problem. But I doubt it.

Thanks for taking the time to do the elaborate reply.

Thanks, that sounds good for his case. LCD-X, BTW The LCD-4 with 200 ohms and 97 dB would definitely work well.
The Focal Listen aren't balanced anyway, which means you don't get the full power from the H20, and so you have enough volume levels for them, too.
Same here, channel balance is flawless even at the lowest volume setting, as expected.

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I have had my H10 for, what 4 years? It is still doing fine. I have other amps, so it has not been my every day amp, But it has lots of hours on it. I was active on the H10 thread for a long time. It is pretty dead now. But there were few issues reported.
I don't leave anything turned on 24/7. Maybe because I don't listen often enough, but I like to think it is not required. Some equipment seems to be very sensitive to being thermally stabilized. I have never found amplifiers to be in that group.
Some DACS, maybe, but even then any that I have used do not change after an hour or so of being on. I do not leave my H20 on all of the time. I really do not hear much difference at all between initial power on and 6 hours later. Beyond that, I don't care.
I refuse to pay for long time power use to maybe achieve a couple of percent difference in sound. I look at this like many things related as "required" on HF. Mostly imagined urban legend passed down from those that claim to be experts to those who know no better.

I miss the H10 sometimes. I'm surprised the amp was discontinued.
How would you differentiate the H20 from the H10? I've gone a different route, but I'm still interested in reading.

 

[mandrake50]

I haven't done a real comparison as in A-B volume matched. I may grab the H10 one day and do that. In addition I haven't had the H10 in the system for quite awhile. If/when I get to it, I will report back here.
The last listening I did with the H10 was after installing the Burson Vivid opamps in both the single and dual positions. This makes a big difference. Best way to do a comparison would be to find and install the stock opamps.