GUSTARD H10 High-current Discrete Class A output Stage Headphone Amplifier

[Schopenhauer]

  Warm. Yes, but not Schiit Lyr 2 warm. 

That's interesting. I haven't heard the Lyr 2 described as warm before. It seems that everyone comments on its power and dynamics. But if it has a warmer sound than the H10 - which I find to be a touch on the side of warmth - then I'd imagine I'd like the Lyr 2's signature. 

 

[stuartmc]

I think the boys were talking about physical temperature, not sonic signature, lol. The Schiit gear runs notoriously hot...you can practically fry an egg on it.

 

[Schopenhauer]

I think the boys were talking about physical temperature, not sonic signature, lol. The Schiit gear runs notoriously hot...you can practically fry an egg on it.

Ah! 

 That makes sense. But it would be too bad about the signature! lol. Doubles as a griddle. 

 

[lukeap69]

Yeah I was talking about warm to touch... 

 
However, it is also applicable to the sound signature. As I've mentioned earlier, the first time I've tried the Lyr 2 with the HD800, I thought it is an experience to forget. To me (then) the H10 best the Lyr 2 in every aspect. Until I tried it again after few days. It must have been that my Amperex OG tubes needed (again) time to burn in after months of hiatus (I had the Tesla gold pins before using  the Lyr 2 with HD800.)
 
The SQ of Lyr 2 - HD800 definitely improved. So I have been using H10 and Lyr 2 back to back or side to side or up to down (that's how physically they are stacked!) I came to understand and differentiate each amp when used with the HD800. This is how I find the two amps compared with each other
 
Lyr 2 with Amperex OG has more boomy bass, the H10 has tighter bass. Lyr 2 has more 'grunt' (don't know if you can call it power) not to be confused with volume. The H10 with +6dB gain is already louder than the Lyr 2 on high gain. But the sound of instruments like guitar seems fuller and more powerful on the Lyr 2. I have played with the gain settings on the H10 to match the fuller sound of the Lyr 2 and it's closer at +12dB gain, however the volume can be very loud easily. So is the Lyr 2 the overall better amp (for me) when using the HD800? 
 
No. Let me explain.
 
Though I believe the Lyr 2 has fuller sound, the timbre/tone of the H10 is far better. It is more natural, organic and very nice to listen to. It is not 'digital'. This is something that draws me to listen to the H10 more than the Lyr 2. The highs are so smoother on the H10. This helps on higher volume listening compared to the Lyr 2. The vocals on the Lyr 2 are more forward, they seem to be on  the right place on the H10. The dynamics, I feel, are better on the H10 when using the XLR connection. Instrument separation, IMO, is more apparent on the H10. The highs, though, are more prominent on the Lyr 2.
 
So, is there a clear winner for me? None. Probably the H10 because of my sound preference. Although I like what I am hearing on the Lyr 2 as well. So both amps will be used on the HD800 depending on the songs/music I am playing. But if I have to select only one, it would be the H10. However, I don't think it will be my end game amp for the HD800. Having said that, I have no plans (yet) of replacing any of these amps anytime soon as I am enjoying both of them immensely. Not to mention that both amps do well with my Oppo PM-2 and AKG Q701. For these cans, I prefer the H10 over the Lyr 2. Almost always.
 
Of course, the above are all IMO. YMMV. (I am not very good in describing the difference and in using audiophile terms, so your understanding maybe different.) 
 
Okay, back to listening now... 

 

[FlySweep]

Which one do you like more?

 
I like both, atm.. the HD800 is the more vivid, refined, technically-capable phone.. but the HE-560 is no slouch.. and I find the 560 a little more versatile as far as genre compatibility.

 

[Lorspeaker]

I remember that unit. The Richard gray power company had been around for years. I think it was about 15 years ago that their product was eviscerated in Stereophile by Jonathan Skull. One of the most brutally negative reviews I ever read.

 
v happy with mine...there is that blackness/quietness in the background.
 
 
 
back to the H10

 

[lukeap69]

   
I like both, atm.. the HD800 is the more vivid, refined, technically-capable phone.. but the HE-560 is no slouch.. and I find the 560 a little more versatile as far as genre compatibility.

Thanks. You have reduced my desire of getting a HE-560. From the HE-560 thread, some head-fiers seem to think HD800 and HE-560 have similarities in SQ (at least that is my understanding.) I don't want my cans to be almost similar that's why I have the Oppo PM-2. Although it is getting little playtime now, it still has a place in my listening programme (European spelling 

). They couldn't be more contrasting but both have place in my arsenal. Did you do the HD800 mod or planning to? 
 
Listening now to Spandau's Through the Barricades via Theorem 720>H10>HD800. The highs' tamer than using Audio-gd NFB-1 but ever so slightly. Oh, the Theorem 720 seems a tad warmer too which works in favour of the HD800. Wish I could have more time to compare, mix and match... 

 

[zilch0md]

Originally Posted by wikifi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
[snip]
 
PC-->Sony PHA-3-Balanced Amp Out-->HD800 --> Very wide open and 3D sound. good for movies and games. Music lacks weight here. do not like this setup for music.
 
[snip]
 
 

 
The problem with this combination is that the PHA-3 only puts out 320mW (maximum, not rms) into 32-Ohms when using its balanced output (and worse, only 100mW (max. not rms) into 32-Ohms via the TRS jack.  
 
The PHA-3 simply doesn't have enough power to drive the HD800 (and for that matter, not enough power to drive many fullsize headphones).  
 
Stick to using only efficient headphones with Sony's portable solutions.
 

Spoiler: An off-topic rant about Sony's very weak amps, but absolutely awesome UIs in their DAPs

If someone gave me a PHA-3, I would only use its Line Out with an external amp - for anything other than the most efficient of headphones or IEMs.  
 
The PHA-2 is even worse - with only offers 90mW (max. not rms) into 32-Ohms - and the PHA-2 doesn't even offer a Line Out.
 
Every Sony portable product, including their DAPs and DAC/amps, have really weak amps - compromised for the sake of increased battery life with small form factors - which is very appealing to the mass market they are trying to sell into - and which, admittedly, sound fine as long as you are using truly efficient headphones or IEMs.
 
But the Sony DAPs have the absolute BEST UI of any DAP manufacturer out there!  Hands down! No contest!  Sony truly is the One and Only when it comes to friendly, bug-free UIs in portable players! 
 
To me, the best possible portable solution available right now, is the Sony NWZ-A17 with its small size, great UI, long battery life, and (infinite capacity) microSDXC card reader - bypassing both its mediocre, proprietary sigma-delta DAC -and- its weak 10mW (max. not rms) headphone amp, using their WM-Port to USB cable, connected to your choice of portable or desktop USB DAC/amp that has its own power source - not to a portable DAC/amp that expects to pull 5VDC from the USB port.  
 
I think the Sony NWZ-A17 DAP > WM-Port-to-USB cable plus the forthcoming OPPO HA-2 DAC/Amp would make a formidable, high performing, small, attractive, and very user friendly portable solution, with absolutely none of the many UI bugs and necessary workarounds suffered by owners of DAPs from the likes of FiiO, HiFiMan, iBasso, etc.
 
Disclaimer:  I'm a Beta tester for the OPPO HA-2 DAC/amp.

 
Mike

 

[zilch0md]

  [snip]
 
So, is there a clear winner for me? None. Probably the H10 because of my sound preference. Although I like what I am hearing on the Lyr 2 as well.
 
[snip]
 
 
 

 
Thanks for your detailed report Luke!
 
The line I've quoted baffles me though, because when I borrowed a friend's Schiit Lyr for 30 days, even buying and rolling tubes, including Mullard NOS, that I eventually gave to my friend, I didn't like the Lyr's "fuzziness."  Nothing I tried could overcome the lack of resolution.  
 
When I reported my findings here at Head-Fi, Jason Stoddard even paid for shipping both ways so that he could test my friend's Lyr, only to declare that it was working perfectly.
 
That experience, coupled with your perception, leaves me thinking that either the Lyr 2 of today is spectacularly better than the Lyr I tested a couple of years ago, or the H10 has a "Lyr-like" lack of resolution.
 
Mike

 

[lukeap69]

Resolution wise, the H10 as the slight advantage but the Lyr 2 with Amperex OG is no slouch. When I first heard the HD800 with the Lyr 2, I thought it was very bad as per my previous post. But that was because my tubes needed to be burnt in again. I wasn't expecting to like the Lyr 2 but I did to some extent. Also different tubes may have different sound. I know I will not like the Tesla gold pins with the HD-800 but I can be wrong. Not sure what's the difference bet the 1st & 2nd gen of Lyr but the Lyr 2 I have can be very enjoyable.

 

[stuartmc]

v happy with mine...there is that blackness/quietness in the background.



back to the H10

I have no doubt that it's a good conditioner, since it has withstood the test of time. There were more than a few owners that thought J10 had taken leave of his senses when he wrote that review. Quite the dust up in the letters section.

 

[wikifi]

  Ah! 

 That makes sense. But it would be too bad about the signature! lol. Doubles as a griddle. 

lol. it meant warm to touch.
 
This amp is a fantastic combination with HD800. Sounds full and absolutely unique and crisp bass (listen to I Got U by Duke Dumont). I auditioned LCD3 before buying HD800 it but LCD3 sounds exactly like my bmw sound system and I wanted something different.  
 
Thanks zilch0md for sharing his experience. I read that low power also effect openness and 3D of sound but these things are all present while using balanced out of PHA-3. Secondly single ended amp out has lot less power but sound better than its balanced amp to me.
 
I use H10 with +6 and +12 set. Can't go beyond 1 O'clock on volume. high gain does results in better sound in this case. 
 
My advice is to buy high end gear at the start. It will save you money in the long run, where you gradually spend more on trying various low end gears.

 

[zilch0md]

   
My advice is to buy high end gear at the start. It will save you money in the long run, where you gradually spend more on trying various low end gears.

 
Yes!

 

[Joong]

This means H10 is a high-end gear.

 

[wikifi]

  This means H10 is a high-end gear.

I think so, without the high cost. It is also good looking and even connectors are high precision in shape showing attention to details. I researched before buying, to pair it with HD800 and H10 exceeds all of my expectations by a high margin. I could not save money by going any other than HD800 headphone as I auditioned LCD3, Sony Z7 and others and realized that some day I had to buy it.  same for PHA-3 as it is most versatile, having ESS chip, battery powered and can be used in many different setups and even has balanced amp out.