[stuartmc]

Just got word from our Gustard guy Polychen that the X10 DAC is being upgraded and that is why he is only selling the X9 now. This is what he had to say in our last correspondence:

"Sorry to answer you so late.
yes,they are changing it,the appearence will be changed ,and also
there are differences between the internal Optional USB
Increasing the IIS interface
Full interface hardware solution DSD
DOP decoding support
thanks"

So, it looks like I will be waiting a few weeks to make my decision. I suspect that the price of the current X10 will drop like a rock when this new model comes out.

 

[swannie007]

Just got word from our Gustard guy Polychen that the X10 DAC is being upgraded and that is why he is only selling the X9 now. This is what he had to say in our last correspondence:

"Sorry to answer you so late.
yes,they are changing it,the appearence will be changed ,and also
there are differences between the internal Optional USB
Increasing the IIS interface
Full interface hardware solution DSD
DOP decoding support
thanks"

So, it looks like I will be waiting a few weeks to make my decision. I suspect that the price of the current X10 will drop like a rock when this new model comes out.

I like the sound of that! I don't particularly care about DSD and it's associated nonsense so a discounted  original X10 may suit my needs just fine.

 

[zilch0md]

Hi Stuart,
 
Quote:

My experiments with power cords and interconnects have had more influence on tonality and soundstaging than the grill mod did.

I was doing a lot of talking to myself during this process....mostly mild expletives about how in the heck this can change the sound so much.

 
This post reveals you that you've been around the block and then some!  
 

 
As a relative newcomer to Head-fi (four years and counting), it seems that all the people who are making the most sense, in the comments they post and impressions they share, eventually touch the subject of power conditioning and reveal that they are big believers of the influence clean power and good power cables can have on sound quality.  
 
It's like a secret known only to the oracles of audio, and yet it's not a secret - it has been disseminated far and wide, only to be dismissed by the masses as some kind of old wives' tale.  

   
 
I point to the success of Stanley Beresford's strategy of offering relatively inexpensive DACs with integrated headphone amps, that (I argue) are affordable, in part, because they include very modest (inexpensive) power management components. The sonic success of his gear is actually dependent on his customers subsequently following his advice to replace the included switch mode PSU, with an external rechargeable battery pack (which he neither includes nor sells.)  And, for his Bushmaster MkII, at least, he even offers a $15 upgrade to an 18-pin PIC chip, reprogrammed specifically for use with the assumed cleaner power of battery packs.
 
To a number, it seems that everyone who gets a battery pack hears an immediate improvement (varying with the quality of power they had been pulling from their AC outlet and the resolving power of downstream components) but these same people get an even lower noise floor, greater detail and transparency, when they then upgrade to the reprogrammed chip - which he strongly advises should not be used with the switch mode PSU on AC power.  I conjecture that the original chip has been programmed, not covertly, but rather out of necessity, to intentionally "smear" the noise that typically comes in from an AC outlet through the switch mode PSU he ships, where his reprogrammed upgrade chip removes that "filter" on the assumption that the battery power is going to be much cleaner than what one would typically get from an AC outlet.  If you tried to use the "battery" chip in a Bushmaster MkII that's on AC power, your sonic quality could vary wildly, depending on the quality of that AC power.  
 
All said and done, Beresford is saving his customers a lot of money by offering gear that's actually designed to perform at its best with $100 battery packs - instead of including $300 or more worth of power conditioning components in every chassis. He openly promotes upgrading to battery packs, but gives you a way to run without them, if you prefer.  
 
Contrast Beresford's approach to something like the far more expensive CEntrance DACmini CX, which basically re-manufactures the power coming into it, accepting any DC voltage in the range of 9V to 19V, as long as it can deliver at least 2 Amps of current. The power supply built into the DACmini CX (and the DACmini PX) are a significant portion of their cost.  Even the CEntrance DACport USB-powered DAC/amp includes five separate power supply circuits to clean up and distribute the noisy power that typically comes from laptop and PC USB ports.
 
I love what Vinnie Rossie (of RWA) has done with his new LIO modular DAC/amp that's powered using "ultra capacitors" - better than batteries.  But its price is out my league in price, sadly.
 
I'm a believer in clean power, so here comes a question:  If I wanted to spend $1000 on power conditioning, for no more than 500 Watts worth of 120V AC gear that cannot be battery-powered, what would you recommend?  (I know that's burdensome, given all the many possibilities, but I would really appreciate your input.)
 
Thanks!
 
Mike

 

[stuartmc]

 
I like the sound of that! I don't particularly care about DSD and it's associated nonsense so a discounted  original X10 may suit my needs just fine.

I'm thinking the same. I don't use computer/usb at all, so these changes will be meaningless to me.  I sent a follow up message to Polychen and asked him specifically if there will be any changes/improvements to the dac output side of things.  If he tells me no, then I think I will ask him if he can pick up the current X10 and give me a good deal on it.  The cosmetic  change to the case is no big deal either. I think the front faceplate on the current model is just fine.

 

[stuartmc]

   
This post reveals you that you've been around the block and then some!  
 

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I'm a believer in clean power, so here comes a question:  If I wanted to spend $1000 on power conditioning, for no more than 500 Watts worth of 120V AC gear that cannot be battery-powered, what would you recommend?  (I know that's burdensome, given all the many possibilities, but I would really appreciate your input.)
 
Thanks!
 
Mike

 
 
I've been around the block so many times that now I think I need a walker.

   There is so much good information in your posts-- I can tell you have been doing your homework, even if that equates to less trips around the block.  I'm pulling stuff out of my hi-fi closet that I haven't fooled with in more than ten years.  I have to say that it has been fun and I'm now kind of glad that I didn't get rid of all this stuff.   What I have to say about power cords and conditioners is therefore a bit dated, but I'll give you my brief two cents.
 
I am a natural skeptic, so when I first started playing with stuff I really didn't want to hear a difference.  I was actually pissed off about it...it was like are you @#~+* kidding me!..now I'm going to spend hours and major bucks on power cords and power conditioners.  My dedicated listening room had a separate circuit isolated from the rest of the house and seperate grounding too, so I didn't have quite the problems that some do with appliances and florescent light balances crapping up the power.  Nevertheless, power conditioning made some significant improvements, so let's start there.   I am of the opinion that simply cleaning up the power supply can yield slight improvements in sound, but that will vary greatly depending on how dirty your electricity is in the first place.  There is also some benefit from isolating your noisier digital components from the more sensitive ones farther down the signal path.  There are lots and lots of devices that will do this for you and I don't think you have to spend a bundle to accomplish this. Early on I tried four different conditioners-  the API power wedge, an early version of the PS audio power plant and two others whose names escape me.  There were only the very slightest of differences between them in my system.  Each one did its job of cleansing and isolating more or less effectively.  Then I discovered a brave new world of electricity "enhancing" that went beyond mere conditioning.  This may be the province of "snake oil" and self-delusion to some, but again, I didn't want to hear a difference and I was ticked off when I did.  My introduction to this brave new world came courtesy of George Tice, who later became my friend.  George took a lot of flack over his "clock" that you plugged into any outlet and it magically altered the sound of any components on the same circuit.  The Tice TPT treatment  just wasn't very effective with the clock, but it was VERY effective when he treated conditioners, power cords, cables and interconnects.  The farther down the signal path you went, the more efficacious the treatment was.  Just what this "treatment" was remained something of a mystery. George told me that he irradiated the metal in these devices by some means - and I think it was a very strong electro-magnetic pulse (hence Tice Pulse Technology, or TPT)- and somehow it altered the physical characteristics of the conductor in such a way that any electrical signal passing through it was also effected. He was kind enough to send me indentical interconnects, one set TPT treated, and the other set not.  I had one of my audio buddies switch them out when I was out of the room and I could tell every time when the TPT treated cable was in the signal path.  What did it do?  Well, it gave the lower midrange and bass some extra warmth, but mostly what I heard were soundstaging effects - images were more cylindrical and floating in space, much less like cardboard cutouts.  So George decided to incorporate the TPT treatment into his Power Block conditioners and of course I decided to get each version.  I preferred the "effect" at the power conditioning source because the interconnects and speaker cables were a little too much, and in my opinion,  I could get better sound with other cable products aided by the TPT treated conditioner at the electrical source.  
 
Next comes the Quantum products.  Their first product the Quantum Symphony didn't condition the power at all. It was like the Tice clock - you plugged the black box into the outlet and supposedly the device convinces those obstreperous little electrons to behave themselves. The treatment is called Quantum Resonance Technology or QRT. I had two of them and I heard some things going on that were quite similar to the Tice produts. Bill Steirhout of Quantum developed a nice power strip called the Octave which does standard conditioning and isolation along with QRT, so I took him up on getting a review unit.  Just like the Tice TPT treatment, the Quantum QRT treatment was most noticeable and beneficial in the imaging and soundstaging area. It also gave an ease and liquidity to the treble that was very appealing, whilst avoiding the midrange /bass warmth and bloatiness of the TPT products.  When I mentioned that the Tice Power Block was a no, no in my current headphone system, I meant that I already had enough midrange warmth and I didn't need any more.
 
Power cords are another kettle of fish. There are as many flavors of them as there are interconnect flavors.  Whats really crazy to me is that the power cord that goes from the outlet to the Quantum Octave (pre-conditioning) makes a difference too...a little less than the ones that come after it, but still noticeable.  That just makes me laugh, or perhaps hurl some more of those mild expletives.  

 

[stuartmc]

That probably wasn 't much help to you Mike. I really don't know what is out there now and what the good deals are.  If you suspect your power is dirty, you can probably get some good results on the cheap.  I think I may want to corrrect or modify my statement about the Tice Power Block being too warm.  The Tice Power block's warmth is very subtle. I had another Tice Power cord in the mix at the time and that was the agent of almost all of the warmth.  I have reccomended the Tice power cords quite often to people who's systems sounded too cold and analytical to them.
 
Cheers,
Stu 

 

[Schopenhauer]

Also, 

 
I do generally try to avoid Audeze headphones due to poor fit and discomfort, so I apologize for no experience there.  
 

I have the LCD-2F. When I get the H10, which could be as early as Friday, I'll pay special attention to its pairing with the LCD-2F. Once I've collected my thoughts, I'll post them on here.

 

[Lorspeaker]

www.cabledyne.com 
 
my sonic infrastructure company of choice

 

[Schopenhauer]

Just a heads up. The price of the H10 fell 48USD. It's now around 352USD. Don't know how long it'll stay at this price. It blows because I JUST ordered it. Oh well, can't really complain. If anyone was on the fence, now might be the time to strike.

 

[swannie007]

Sir GP, or more commonly known as Stu, what are your thoughts on using a UPS to supply power to a music system? I suspect that a lot of the "unruly electrons" will be brought into line with this device, or am I deluding myself again? Surely the Master Guinea Pig would know of such things. I wait with baited breath and high expectations for the dispersement of your superior knowledge in this area. I would say that I am not worthy but that would simply not be true as I am also of the guinea pig breed.  Cheers from Oz. 

 

[lukeap69]

Just a heads up. The price of the H10 fell 48USD. It's now around 352USD. Don't know how long it'll stay at this price. It blows because I JUST ordered it. Oh well, can't really complain. If anyone was on the fence, now might be the time to strike.

Nice! I got mine during Chinese Single's Day 11.11 for 280USD plus shipping. I selected DHL/Aramex for faster shipping for a total price of 344USD. Not bad at all. 

 

[zilch0md]

Thanks Stuart!  
 
Quote:

  I've been around the block so many times that now I think I need a walker.

   
 

Spoiler: Experience revealed...

There is so much good information in your posts-- I can tell you have been doing your homework, even if that equates to less trips around the block.  I'm pulling stuff out of my hi-fi closet that I haven't fooled with in more than ten years.  I have to say that it has been fun and I'm now kind of glad that I didn't get rid of all this stuff.   What I have to say about power cords and conditioners is therefore a bit dated, but I'll give you my brief two cents.
 
I am a natural skeptic, so when I first started playing with stuff I really didn't want to hear a difference.  I was actually pissed off about it...it was like are you @#~+* kidding me!..now I'm going to spend hours and major bucks on power cords and power conditioners.  My dedicated listening room had a separate circuit isolated from the rest of the house and seperate grounding too, so I didn't have quite the problems that some do with appliances and florescent light balances crapping up the power.  Nevertheless, power conditioning made some significant improvements, so let's start there.   I am of the opinion that simply cleaning up the power supply can yield slight improvements in sound, but that will vary greatly depending on how dirty your electricity is in the first place.  There is also some benefit from isolating your noisier digital components from the more sensitive ones farther down the signal path.  There are lots and lots of devices that will do this for you and I don't think you have to spend a bundle to accomplish this. Early on I tried four different conditioners-  the API power wedge, an early version of the PS audio power plant and two others whose names escape me.  There were only the very slightest of differences between them in my system.  Each one did its job of cleansing and isolating more or less effectively.  Then I discovered a brave new world of electricity "enhancing" that went beyond mere conditioning.  This may be the province of "snake oil" and self-delusion to some, but again, I didn't want to hear a difference and I was ticked off when I did.  My introduction to this brave new world came courtesy of George Tice, who later became my friend.  George took a lot of flack over his "clock" that you plugged into any outlet and it magically altered the sound of any components on the same circuit.  The Tice TPT treatment  just wasn't very effective with the clock, but it was VERY effective when he treated conditioners, power cords, cables and interconnects.  The farther down the signal path you went, the more efficacious the treatment was.  Just what this "treatment" was remained something of a mystery. George told me that he irradiated the metal in these devices by some means - and I think it was a very strong electro-magnetic pulse (hence Tice Pulse Technology, or TPT)- and somehow it altered the physical characteristics of the conductor in such a way that any electrical signal passing through it was also effected. He was kind enough to send me indentical interconnects, one set TPT treated, and the other set not.  I had one of my audio buddies switch them out when I was out of the room and I could tell every time when the TPT treated cable was in the signal path.  What did it do?  Well, it gave the lower midrange and bass some extra warmth, but mostly what I heard were soundstaging effects - images were more cylindrical and floating in space, much less like cardboard cutouts.  So George decided to incorporate the TPT treatment into his Power Block conditioners and of course I decided to get each version.  I preferred the "effect" at the power conditioning source because the interconnects and speaker cables were a little too much, and in my opinion,  I could get better sound with other cable products aided by the TPT treated conditioner at the electrical source.  
 
Next comes the Quantum products.  Their first product the Quantum Symphony didn't condition the power at all. It was like the Tice clock - you plugged the black box into the outlet and supposedly the device convinces those obstreperous little electrons to behave themselves. The treatment is called Quantum Resonance Technology or QRT. I had two of them and I heard some things going on that were quite similar to the Tice produts. Bill Steirhout of Quantum developed a nice power strip called the Octave which does standard conditioning and isolation along with QRT, so I took him up on getting a review unit.  Just like the Tice TPT treatment, the Quantum QRT treatment was most noticeable and beneficial in the imaging and soundstaging area. It also gave an ease and liquidity to the treble that was very appealing, whilst avoiding the midrange /bass warmth and bloatiness of the TPT products.  When I mentioned that the Tice Power Block was a no, no in my current headphone system, I meant that I already had enough midrange warmth and I didn't need any more.
 
Power cords are another kettle of fish. There are as many flavors of them as there are interconnect flavors.  Whats really crazy to me is that the power cord that goes from the outlet to the Quantum Octave (pre-conditioning) makes a difference too...a little less than the ones that come after it, but still noticeable.  That just makes me laugh, or perhaps hurl some more of those mild expletives.  

 

 

  That probably wasn 't much help to you Mike. I really don't know what is out there now and what the good deals are.  If you suspect your power is dirty, you can probably get some good results on the cheap.  I think I may want to corrrect or modify my statement about the Tice Power Block being too warm.  The Tice Power block's warmth is very subtle. I had another Tice Power cord in the mix at the time and that was the agent of almost all of the warmth.  I have reccomended the Tice power cords quite often to people who's systems sounded too cold and analytical to them.
 
Cheers,
Stu 

 
Your testimony is inspiring because, yet again, I am hit over the head by someone saying, "This shouldn't make such a difference, but it's undeniable."  
 
In trying to research the latest gear, I'm finding that the most respected power conditioning stuff offers more Watts than I need, and thus, I would end up buying a dump truck, when all I need is a 3/4 ton pickup.
 
Sparing you and anyone else with too many details for this off-topic discussion, a HiFi guru friend who seldom posts on Head-Fi has spent a lot of money across several different brands and says that Balanced Power Technologies offers a lot of bang for the buck in power conditioning - in his experienced opinion.
 
http://www.b-p-t.com/bp-1-ultra.html
 
My problem is that their smallest offering (as seen at this link) more than exhausts my $1000 budget before I even get into replacing power cables, and it's oversized for my needs - offering 8 outlets for up to 8.5 Amps (1000 Watts), when I really only need four outlets and 120 Watts for my desktop headphone setup.  
 
Break out the violins, I'm going to cry...   LOL
 
I have to do more research...
 
But thanks again!
 
Mike

 

[Lorspeaker]

http://www.richardgrayspowercompany.com/pdf/power/substation.pdf

 

[Joong]

Is it real that power code or power conditioner affect sound quality?
When I tried the power code and power conditioner, there is no effect at all.
My machine chain is an Oppo 105 - Burson conductor - H10 - He6.
There is nothing being changed even though I put considerable money for the power conditioning and the code.

 

[Lorspeaker]

Is the H10 amp generating enough power for the HE6? hows the sound? 
 
( did u upgrade your RCAcables too? )