Gustard Amplifiers and DACs
May 23, 2015 at 6:49 AM Post #136 of 605
Man i've been reading this thread and the original H10 thread. Totally sold on getting a gustard now, just a matter of which and when lol. 
 
Did want to ask a question about the X12 though, if im connecting via toslink, does it make sense to have the U12 still? i'm assuming toslink will sound better than USB right?
 
Btw i personally love the name. (i pronounced it Gu- Star- d) Also Gustard H20 (aka H-2-O / gustard water) sounds awesome =)
 
May 23, 2015 at 7:49 AM Post #137 of 605
   
There are a few things that factor in to the price of Gustard products, low margin is one, but they're also clever with sourcing and manufacturing. As a result their product time-to-market is very long but the price point they can sell it is very low. You can do that with high-end audio since hey, what's good now is going to be good years from now. In other businesses like computers or mobile phones you just can't do that.
 
By the way at no point has Gustard said the balanced amp will be called H20. It's what head-fiers keep calling it. There's still time to influence the design of the amp so if you guys do have any suggestions I'll pass them forward for sure.


I really want to see an attenuator volume control, preferably a relay attenuator. Audio-GD has shown that this can be accomplished at $399 USD, offering excellent channel balance. I want the amplifier to be a fully balanced discrete Class A design with less emphasis on sheer output power and more on quality. Headphones are becoming increasingly efficient, and I don't want to pay extra for the ability to push 10 watts into 32 ohms. The new amp should have the same dimensions as the X20, and stack well with it.
 
I trust Gustard on the implementation though, the only thing up in the air is their choice of volume control. Far too many amps in the $500-2000 range are using volume pots, with only a few noteworthy exceptions such as Audio-GD, and the Schiit Ragnarok. Seeing volume pots on $1500+ amps like the BHA-1 and Taurus MKII is just unforgivable.
 
 
  Man i've been reading this thread and the original H10 thread. Totally sold on getting a gustard now, just a matter of which and when lol. 
 
Did want to ask a question about the X12 though, if im connecting via toslink, does it make sense to have the U12 still? i'm assuming toslink will sound better than USB right?
 
Btw i personally love the name. (i pronounced it Gu- Star- d) Also Gustard H20 (aka H-2-O / gustard water) sounds awesome =)


I think the U12 is a pretty cheap buy and will be a good improvement, but it's hardly necessary. With toslink you will avoid ground loop issues but you will add a little interface jitter and be limited in sample rate to 192khz, which is more than enough anyways. The interface jitter won't be an issue since it will be reclocked anyways. On the other hand, buying an expensive Gucci external reclocker, and then connecting with a non-i2s interface is a big no-no lol. The X12 and the U12 have a compatible i2s connection though, so I would use that.
 
I feel though, overall the input section on the X12 has definitely been an area where it has been built to a price by necessity, and the U12 does much to alleviate that.
 
Personally, I'd wait for the X20 since it's essentially the same price of the X12 + U12, and will very likely do better than the combo. They really paid attention to the input section this time as I speculated that they would months ago. I think with the X20, an external USB interface will no longer be of benefit and would actually degrade performance. Jitter performance will be very good even with the Chinese TCXOs. With a few clock mods it can get even better, but when jitter is better than -120 db (barring jitter spikes), I wonder if it really even matters.
 
May 24, 2015 at 1:07 AM Post #138 of 605
I heard an h10 in a meet over here, and I was pretty blown away. It sounded better (for my taste) than the Lyr2 and even amps which cost multiples of the h10.

Im currently using he-400s powered by a sciit vali, i was originally planning on a lyr2 but after I heard the h10 I fell in love with it.

Just somthing I'm wandering I only realy tested it with the he-400s, and it realy brought out the mids (which I prefer). How will it perform with other driver types?

Ps, I couldn't find any info on the web saying how much power the h10 can supply to different ohm HPs any one got a clue?
 
May 24, 2015 at 7:00 AM Post #140 of 605
@SodaBoy Thanks for the tips / clarification. Just gave in and ordered the H10 from ebay, and will wait to get the X20 later =)
 
May 27, 2015 at 4:24 AM Post #142 of 605
Got a question for you guys who have the X12 / U12 here. I'm waiting for the X20 to drop, does it make sense to buy a Schitt Wyrd USB cleaner? my current DACs can certainly use some usb signal cleaning, but i'm wondering if you guys who have the X12 / U12 feel like you would need something like the Schitt wyrd? Will the X12/U12 help clean up the signal? Debating if its worth buying right now.
 
**i should mention that my computer outputs a ton of crap signal noise and spikes, which is reduced significantly when i use a y cable + battery connected to my iphone / ipad instead. 
 
May 27, 2015 at 5:17 AM Post #143 of 605
Gustare, apparently is Italian for taste, or enjoying a flavour. So, maybe a 'Gustard' is someone with good taste. That would work, for me.
 
Using toslink, although shunned by many for being inferior to spdif, should have advantages, especially if you've an effective reclocking component feeding the dac. As mentioned, it electrically isolates the computer from the replay equipment; that can only be a good thing.
 
May 27, 2015 at 5:23 AM Post #144 of 605
  Got a question for you guys who have the X12 / U12 here. I'm waiting for the X20 to drop, does it make sense to buy a Schitt Wyrd USB cleaner? my current DACs can certainly use some usb signal cleaning, but i'm wondering if you guys who have the X12 / U12 feel like you would need something like the Schitt wyrd? Will the X12/U12 help clean up the signal? Debating if its worth buying right now.
 
**i should mention that my computer outputs a ton of crap signal noise and spikes, which is reduced significantly when i use a y cable + battery connected to my iphone / ipad instead. 

The U12 does not use USB bus power, it only needs the 5v for the USB handshake to turn on. The only concern for some would be the polluted ground, but the Wyrd does not isolate the ground. I don't know about the X20 since it's not even released yet, but I doubt it isolates the USB since high speed isolators are expensive. On the X12+U12, and I'm not hearing any ground loop, background is dead silent even when the computer is under heavy use. When the USB implementation is poor, people can often hear noise whenever they do something mundane such as moving the mouse. I wouldn't worry about it yet, don't drop money on something unless you need it.
 
May 27, 2015 at 5:27 AM Post #145 of 605
Ok very cool~ i'll just wait for now then. Thanks @SodaBoy !
 
May 27, 2015 at 1:17 PM Post #146 of 605
Got a question for you guys who have the X12 / U12 here. I'm waiting for the X20 to drop, does it make sense to buy a Schitt Wyrd USB cleaner? my current DACs can certainly use some usb signal cleaning, but i'm wondering if you guys who have the X12 / U12 feel like you would need something like the Schitt wyrd? Will the X12/U12 help clean up the signal? Debating if its worth buying right now.

**i should mention that my computer outputs a ton of crap signal noise and spikes, which is reduced significantly when i use a y cable + battery connected to my iphone / ipad instead. 


I have the schiit wyrd with the u12-x12-h10 stack.
It works fine altought I did not perform any test without the wyrd.
Nevertheless this little device made a previous interface I had finally work, well sort of: I ended up returning it. Won't mention the brand but I am very tempted.
Such interface wouldn't work at all above 48kHz when connected directly to my pc (while other usb dacs and interfaces are working just fine even without the wyrd).

Even if the u12 does not need power from the usb bus, there still is the reclocking feature. AFAIK even with async interfaces, the better the source signal, the better the overall result.

Slightly off topic, but still concerning the u12 and the x12, today I am adding a new hdmi cable from the italian brand 'ricable' to replace a very standard hdmi tv cable.
 
May 27, 2015 at 1:25 PM Post #147 of 605
Gustare, apparently is Italian for taste, or enjoying a flavour. So, maybe a 'Gustard' is someone with good taste. That would work, for me.

Using toslink, although shunned by many for being inferior to spdif, should have advantages, especially if you've an effective reclocking component feeding the dac. As mentioned, it electrically isolates the computer from the replay equipment; that can only be a good thing.


hello, I am from Italy.
I don't think the word 'gustare', whose meaning you explained correctly, has anything to do with the name 'Gustard', sorry :)
 
May 27, 2015 at 5:49 PM Post #149 of 605
I have the schiit wyrd with the u12-x12-h10 stack.
It works fine altought I did not perform any test without the wyrd.
Nevertheless this little device made a previous interface I had finally work, well sort of: I ended up returning it. Won't mention the brand but I am very tempted.
Such interface wouldn't work at all above 48kHz when connected directly to my pc (while other usb dacs and interfaces are working just fine even without the wyrd).

Even if the u12 does not need power from the usb bus, there still is the reclocking feature. AFAIK even with async interfaces, the better the source signal, the better the overall result.

Slightly off topic, but still concerning the u12 and the x12, today I am adding a new hdmi cable from the italian brand 'ricable' to replace a very standard hdmi tv cable.

 
tried the cable! It seems to be quite better than the generic hdmi cable I had.
Of course it may be placebo, but at a first listen, I like the set-up a bit more. It seems to deliver more detail.
 
The hp is a Sennheiser HD 650.
 

 
May 27, 2015 at 9:39 PM Post #150 of 605
  Gustare, apparently is Italian for taste, or enjoying a flavour. So, maybe a 'Gustard' is someone with good taste. That would work, for me.
 
Using toslink, although shunned by many for being inferior to spdif, should have advantages, especially if you've an effective reclocking component feeding the dac. As mentioned, it electrically isolates the computer from the replay equipment; that can only be a good thing.

 
I haven't seen such shunning but I wouldn't understand it either. Is this just based on aesthetic preferences? Toslink sends a S/PDIF signal. The signal being sent is the same, whether it be coaxial/RCA or toslink/fibre optic.
 

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