[grawk]

Ah, ok.  Yes, every range I've been to is ok with collecting your own brass, and generally not ok with you collecting others' brass.  Within reason, of course.

 

[CaffeinatedX42]

Quote:

I've heard the term "range chickens" to refer to the people who walk around picking up casings to reload, like chickens walk around picking up feed, not people who shoot .22's. I haven't heard of range's that will be that upset at you for collecting casings, but you might invite a fair amount of ridicule.

 
 
My buddy's and I call them "brass crabs" because the scuttle around sideways hunched over.  I've always appreciated them at my outdoor club as it means I don't have to ever pick up my own brass; plus I'm technically "recycling".
 
I have had a particularly annoying regular at my indoor club invade my personal space (with a rake) to collect my brass while I was shooting.  He got kicked out of the club eventually after doing it to several people.  He didn't seem to understand why startling a person actively shooting a gun might be a bad idea, nor why people might be mad that he was taking their brass.

 

[ronnielee54]

Quote:

With the recent ammo run, it might be better to delay target practice until the manufacturers can keep up with demand. The backorders and markups you're seeing now for ammunition are insane.

 I have been really lucky through all of this.  In the last month or two I have been able to purchase about 4k rounds of .22LR at normal prices.  Already had about that much on hand so with a little ove 8k rounds, I am good to go. 

 

[Grevlin]

Found a bunch of boxes of the new 12ga PDX1 Defender segmented slugs at Walmart - people must not have known what they were.
 
Seen here:
 
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NZHCyif8PJg
 
 
Super nasty and all the kinetic energy in just 12" of penetration - bad guys insides would be - mushy.

 

[CaffeinatedX42]

Quote:

New member of the family:
 

 

 

 
 
Stoeger Condor O/U 12ga.
 

 

 
 
Nice!  I hope you get to bust lots of clays with it.
 
This past Sunday a guy that was assigned to my squad shot the pants off all the rest of us with his Stoeger for the first five stations.  We didn't take him seriously, as he was new to the club, so when he went first and broke all six clays it threw all of us off our game.  A very capable gun.

 

[CaffeinatedX42]

In an effort to keep this thread going:
 
Who out there has a concealed carry license?  For those that do, which do you carry more often:  a gun or a portable headphone amp?

 

[Grevlin]

Quote:

In an effort to keep this thread going:
 
Who out there has a concealed carry license?  For those that do, which do you carry more often:  a gun or a portable headphone amp?

 
lol
 
I have a ccw - and I carry a Kimber Pro Carry II 1911 every single day.
 
 
Portable headphone amp - not so much.

 

[wareagle69]

I never carry a portable headphone amp.
 
I do carry either a Sig Arms GSR 1911 Commander or a Springfield XDm everyday.

 

[Exediron]

Hey everyone - thought I'd stop by for some advice. I'm probably going to be buying a firearm some time in the near(ish) future, and since I have basically no experience I hope to draw on the Head-Fi knowledge base here.
 
Context: I'll be going to the upper peninsula in June for about two weeks, during which time I'll be working on a photography project that I expect to take me into the woods and along rivers well into the night. Since the UP is home to a very sizable number of bears and wolves and mountain lions, I think I'd feel safer with something that I can use to put holes in things quickly if I need to. A friend of mine who spends time up north a lot told me that the wolves are getting pretty aggressive the last few years - might be true, might not. Either way, I don't hope to need a weapon, but it's better to have one and not need it than the other way around, that's for sure.
 
I've pretty much settled on a shotgun as my best bet; I don't have a CCW license nor do I intend to get one, so it's going to be a long-arm - I doubt a handgun has the power to do a reliable takedown on a bear anyway, should I need to. In Michigan you don't need a license to purchase a long-arm, so that much should be easy. I favor shotgun over rifle because you can't beat the punch of a slug, and I would only be using it at close quarters anyway.
 
The points I'd like advice on are mainly the following:
 
Semi-Auto or Pump? If a semi-auto is within a reasonable margin of the reliability of a pump I'd much prefer one - less to worry about in the heat of the moment and you can keep a clean sight picture if faced with multiple targets or if you need a follow-up shot.
Ammunition: I'd be leaning towards a 12 gauge and slugs. Are rifled slugs enough more accurate at close range to bother with a weapon that fires them?
Sights: Iron sights, or are the laser dots better if you might be using it in dark conditions? Flashlight attachment?
 
So far I've done a bit of looking around and I like the look of this Mossberg; it's small enough to fit in my dual-compartment tripod case (40" maximum), has a pistol grip and stock (that's what I know how to control), M16-style sights (which I know how to use) and holds a decent load. Any thoughts? I'm also open to other suggestions, provided it doesn't go too far over $1000 - I'm not looking to spend too much here, but I do want something sturdy and reliable. No point skimping on self-defense expenses, but I don't think I need a top-line Benelli either.
 
Thanks for any suggestions, all. My main relevant experience is with crossbows and a bit with an AR-15, so I'm pretty much going blind here.

 

[leftnose]

How 'bout some night sights.
 
 

 

[CaffeinatedX42]

Quote:

...bears and wolves and mountain lions, I think I'd feel safer with something that I can use to put holes in things quickly if I need to...
 
...Semi-Auto or Pump? If a semi-auto is within a reasonable margin of the reliability of a pump I'd much prefer one - less to worry about in the heat of the moment and you can keep a clean sight picture if faced with multiple targets or if you need a follow-up shot.
Ammunition: I'd be leaning towards a 12 gauge and slugs. Are rifled slugs enough more accurate at close range to bother with a weapon that fires them?
Sights: Iron sights, or are the laser dots better if you might be using it in dark conditions? Flashlight attachment?
 

 
I'm curious to see how many various opinions you get on this.  
 
My 2 cents:
Pump vs semi-auto; Go pump unless you plan on shooting several hundred practice rounds through your semi-auto and will fee 100% confident it will be reliable.  For self defense I'd rather have a gun that is definitely going to shoot rather than one which probably will and with any-semi automatic firearm to be 100% confident in it requires hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds.  I'd also go with a smooth bore barrel and a cylinder choke.  The specific one I'd suggest is a Walmart special Remington 870 12g; should cost only about $300 and will be extremely versatile (hunting & self defense).  If you want a shorter barrel you can buy one separately for cheap (on most pump shotguns switching out the barrel requires no tools and takes less than two minutes).  Next to my bed is a 12g Remington 870 express smooth bore 18" cylinder choke pump with extended magazine and a bead sight filled with 00 buck.
 
Ammunition - I agree with 12 gauge.  I wouldn't go slugs though.  00 buck should be more than enough for cats and wolves.  It can definitely kill a bear too at close range; though admittedly not ideal.  It's a trade off; if you were to hit any of these animals with a well placed slug shot it will immediately take them down but slugs are infinitely harder to aim as there is zero spread so even at close range it's much more likely you will miss or at least not hit exactly where you want.  With buckshot the spread isn't dramatic at close range but is still exponentially wider than a slug; so the likelihood of you hitting & hitting somewhere you want is much higher.  A glancing shot with a slug that grazes the shoulder of a wolf would tear a big chunk out with buckshot.  The slug also has the negative of far more recoil, which will destroy your sight picture.  If you want to be fancy you could have buck shot & a slug both loaded with the buck shot first.
 
One comment about slugs;  you mention rifled slugs, be aware those are meant to be used in smooth bore barrels.  You'd definitely be better off getting a smooth bore, IMO, and 90% of all the shotguns you'll see in a gun store will be smooth bores.
 
Sights - For the purpose you're describing I'd just go with a standard bead at the end of the barrel.  You'd be shooting these animals at very close range and have no need for anything more complicated which would require lots of practice.  Any skeet or sporting clay shooter will tell you a bead sight can be remarkably accurate.  In a "kill or be killed" situation you'll mostly be operating on instinct and a bead (IMO) "fits" instinct better with minimal training.
 
Flashlight - that's up to you. It's another thing to worry about/fiddle with in the heat of the moment but definitely useful at night of course.  It will, though, destroy your night vision narrowing your ability to see anything to just what the beam falls on; of course the first time you fire will also screw your night vision too.

 

[leftnose]

Quote:

Any skeet or sporting clay shooter will tell you a bead sight can be remarkably accurate.  In a "kill or be killed" situation you'll mostly be operating on instinct and a bead (IMO) "fits" instinct better with minimal training.
 

 
Any skeet or sporting clay shooter worth his salt will tell you that anyone who's looking at the bead while attempting to hit a moving target will only miss the target.  There's no "accuracy" when shooting a target load of 7.5s with a 30" pattern.
 
When you need accuracy for slugs or buckshot, go with rifle sights or something like a ghost ring.  

 

[Exediron]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CaffeinatedX42 /img/forum/go_quote.gif
 
...
 
Pump vs semi-auto; Go pump unless you plan on shooting several hundred practice rounds through your semi-auto and will fee 100% confident it will be reliable.  For self defense I'd rather have a gun that is definitely going to shoot rather than one which probably will and with any-semi automatic firearm to be 100% confident in it requires hundreds (if not thousands) of rounds.  I'd also go with a smooth bore barrel and a cylinder choke.  The specific one I'd suggest is a Walmart special Remington 870 12g; should cost only about $300 and will be extremely versatile (hunting & self defense).  If you want a shorter barrel you can buy one separately for cheap (on most pump shotguns switching out the barrel requires no tools and takes less than two minutes).  Next to my bed is a 12g Remington 870 express smooth bore 18" cylinder choke pump with extended magazine and a bead sight filled with 00 buck.
 
Ammunition - I agree with 12 gauge.  I wouldn't go slugs though.  00 buck should be more than enough for cats and wolves.  It can definitely kill a bear too at close range; though admittedly not ideal.  It's a trade off; if you were to hit any of these animals with a well placed slug shot it will immediately take them down but slugs are infinitely harder to aim as there is zero spread so even at close range it's much more likely you will miss or at least not hit exactly where you want.  With buckshot the spread isn't dramatic at close range but is still exponentially wider than a slug; so the likelihood of you hitting & hitting somewhere you want is much higher.  A glancing shot with a slug that grazes the shoulder of a wolf would tear a big chunk out with buckshot.  The slug also has the negative of far more recoil, which will destroy your sight picture.  If you want to be fancy you could have buck shot & a slug both loaded with the buck shot first.

 
Thanks for the reply. I'd actually thought about trying a buck shot load or two first and then slugs in case the first few didn't do the trick, but I wasn't sure how feasible that was. I might do that then.
 
As for semi-automatic reliability, do you think the manufacture quality of the shotgun can mitigate the need for extensive break-in, or is that just a fact of life with an autoloader? Would something only fairly mildly outside my intended budget such as an FN be trustworthy with a smaller amount of test fires?

 

[CaffeinatedX42]

Quote:

 
.....
 
As for semi-automatic reliability, do you think the manufacture quality of the shotgun can mitigate the need for extensive break-in, or is that just a fact of life with an autoloader? Would something only fairly mildly outside my intended budget such as an FN be trustworthy with a smaller amount of test fires?

 
Sorry, I'll have to leave that question for someone else.  I don't own an autoloader.  They are extremely popular among many hunters so I'm sure there are others who can answer.

 

[CaffeinatedX42]

Quote:

 
Any skeet or sporting clay shooter worth his salt will tell you that anyone who's looking at the bead while attempting to hit a moving target will only miss the target.  There's no "accuracy" when shooting a target load of 7.5s with a 30" pattern.
 
When you need accuracy for slugs or buckshot, go with rifle sights or something like a ghost ring.  

 
I have to disagree.
 
As a sporting clay shooter worth my salt I can tell you that everyone looks at the bead; that's why it's there.  If you are suggesting you don't look at the bead try shooting a match without it.  Yes, you don't aim with it like a standard rifle or pistol sight and yes you shouldn't be purposely staring at it but the bead definitely factors into the things everyone needs to see when busting a clay.
 
In regards to "accuracy", it is definitely a factor even when shooting 7.5+ with a wide spread.  Hence pattern boards.  If accuracy wasn't a factor everyone would hit 100% and clay shooting sports wouldn't exist.