[Old Pa]

The lovers of powerful precision among us owe a debt of thanks to the Allied Occupation Command in Germany after the end of WWII. When German citizens, with strong cultural attachments to firearm target shooting matches, approached them to restart this sport, Occupation Command agreed with the proviso of "no firearms". And the high end airgun market was born.

Winter in the Northwoods would be much longer without my indoor 10 meter range. With precision target airguns, you can practice all aspects of shooting without blast or flinch. And the range of modern high end airguns is broad; I have a friend who has taken buffalo with his heavy airgun.

Before compressed air and new generation CO2 airguns became the rage, there were spring piston airguns. All my precision airguns are of this type. The top rifle is and RWS Model 75 left hand recoiless .177 match rifle. It shoots way better than I can. The 3rd rifle is a RWS Model 48 .177 that drives a heavy match pellet over 1000fps and is just the answer to suburban "agricultural pests". The pistol on the bottom is a RWS Model 6M fitted with left hand adjustable platform grips. It is also recoiless and in .177 caliber.

The second rifle down is a Crossman that, while it is over twenty year old, is the modern variant of my "pump up pellet gun" from the '60s. My original had wood furniture and Crossman has since cheaped out ala Daisy. This is my "air-drop-gun"

provided as a gift by a friend for a special application. You see the city I live in several decades ago took the expedient of amending their common "no discharge of a firearm within city limits" ordinance. The amendment reads that for purposes of the ordinance all airguns are defined as firearms.

So if one of my bunny-hugging neighbors rats me out for "permanently relocating" some agricultural pests, the Crossman is what the PO's get to seize. Hasn't happened yet.

 

[KYTGuy]

Hey OLD PA:

You can buy .177 cal air rifles from "out of the back of a semi sales" for around $30 - made in Romania, break action to ****...horrible accuracy, but then you can keep the Crosman! Loan the Crosman to some young soul needing a piece for learning.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYTGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif You can buy .177 cal air rifles from "out of the back of a semi sales" for around $30 - made in Romania, break action to ****...horrible accuracy, but then you can keep the Crosman!

I got my father one of them fine Chinese airguns back in the early 80s, side-c**king spring piston, fit and feel (and sights

) of a fine Type 56 (SKS) with accuracy to match. Kind of like having this Crosman around for its stated purpose.

 

[Gautama]

I found that my Dad has the Gamo P23 as shown above, I might pick that up and do some target shooting in the yard this summer. Gonna have to stock up on pellets and CO2.

 

[necropimp]

Quote:

Originally Posted by KYTGuy /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey OLD PA: You can buy .177 cal air rifles from "out of the back of a semi sales" for around $30 - made in Romania, break action to ****...horrible accuracy, but then you can keep the Crosman! Loan the Crosman to some young soul needing a piece for learning.

horrible accuracy? mine must be a fluke then... it's a bit underpowered but i don't mind.. i only bought it because i wanted a cheap break barrel for plinking so i ordered one from century when i bought my K98k

 

[pne]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pa /img/forum/go_quote.gif I got my father one of them fine Chinese airguns back in the early 80s, side-c**king spring piston, fit and feel (and sights ) of a fine Type 56 (SKS) with accuracy to match. Kind of like having this Crosman around for its stated purpose.

i have a cheap chinese airgun too. I use cheap pellets in it and I'm not afraid of tossing it around or getting dirt in the barrel. It can't shoot groupings the size of a pinhead but it's still nice to have something to kick around.

 

[Old Pa]

The .44 Remington Magnum is the linear descendant of the .44-40 Winchester and the .44 Special cartridges. Elmer Keith and his associates spent a good deal of the first half of the 20th century determining how strong then modern revolvers such as the S&W Triple-Lock in .44SPL were, and they found these then new revolvers were a good deal stronger than the loads then available in .44SPL. Keith talked Smith &Wesson into making a revolver chambered for a .44Spl case 1/10th inch longer than the .44SPL (much the same as a .357Mad case is 1/10th inch longer than a .38SPL) to get more powder capacity while preventing the new longer cartridge from being chambered in older weaker revolvers. S&W agreed with the proviso that Keith must talk Remington into producing the ammunition. Keith did and the rest is history.

For me, the .44Rem Mag, besides being a well balanced and powerful cartridge, is at the power transition point normally separating pistols from long guns and it works well in both. I am quite familiar with the .454s, .460s, .475s, and various .50s (even a .45-70!

) and have shown you precision pistols in .22-250 and .308Win, but for me the most useful pistols are light and compact enough to be carried and employed with speed and accuracy at conversational ranges. For me, the .44Rem Mag is at the top of the power scale of what can be put into a sub three pound package. And then there is the American tradition of single cartridges that an outdoorsman may conveniently and effectively employ in both pistols and long guns. The .22LR, the .44-40, the .357Rem Mag, and the .44Rem Mag are all cartridges of this type.

The three revolvers are all stainless steel S&W 629s in various barrel/frame configurations. They have all been fitted with Pachmayr’s excellent Gripper grips which I find very comfortable and spread and absorb some recoil. They have all had single action trigger return springs installed, had their timing and lock-up tuned, had the forcing cone at the receiver end of their barrels lengthened, and had their mainsprings boned slightly to lighten them. The six inch revolver has a square frame and an unfluted cylinder and is known as the Classic Hunter. The four inch has a light barrel, round butt, and is the Mountain Gun model. The 8 3/8 inch barrel with its round butt is, by fortune of its barrel length, sight radius, and weight, the most pleasant to shoot. It’s consistently good for 2 liter plastic beverage bottles at 100 yards.

The scoped single shot is an older Thompson Center Contender with a Burris 2-7X scope and a 14 inch barrel. I’ve gotten three inch groups out of it at fifty yards. The lever action carbine as a Winchester Model 94 Trapper with 16” barrel and Williams receiver sights for the Pa’s old eyes. This is a four inch gun at 125yds, which I hold as the maximum prudent game range for the .44Rem Mag cartridge.

In light guns, the .44Rem Mag’s recoil can be severe. I acquired my lightest revolver, the Mountain Gun, as a used gun. It had obviously not been shot much and when I removed the stock hard plastic Hogue grips I found out why. Under the grips at the back frame there was a significant amount of the previous owner’s blood from where the recoil had evidently split the web of his or her hand.

It took me years to discover the secret to enjoying shooting the .44Rem Mag is hardcast lead bullets. Jacketed bullets are harder to force into the rifling lands and up the barrel and the perceived recoil when shooting them is significantly greater. Over ninety per cent of the .44Rem Mag shooting I do these days is with hardcast lead bullets. Hardcast lead bullets are also significantly less expensive than jacketed bullets. I now load four different .44Rem Mag loads; a 240 gr hardcast lead at 1100fps for “general social purposes” in the lighter revolvers, a 240 gr hardcast lead over 2200 powder for heavy target and light game, a 200gr Hornady XTP over 296 powder for deer size game, and a 240gr Hornady XTP for bear defense.

 

[FallenAngel]

Quote:

Originally Posted by trains are bad /img/forum/go_quote.gif cut to avoid space, read post if you need reference

Buddy, you seriously don't need to be such a dick about it, everybody is allowed their an opinion, let's just not take it that far. Some might strongly disagree with your point of view, as I do, and it IS a very contravertial subject. Of course, it is your choice of how you live your life, but please don't write a page-long slander of someone with a different point of view and how proud you are of yours in a forum dedicated to displaying nice guns.

Old Pa, Wow, that is a beautiful Winchester. I'd feel like a complete city-slicker-playing-cowboy if I ever got to shoot one

All this gun-talk has got my curiousity piqued and I'm totally thinking of heading out to the range for one of their introductory courses - does this sound like a fun start?

 

[mrarroyo]

Anyone here remembers the 357 maximum?

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by FallenAngel /img/forum/go_quote.gif Old Pa, Wow, that is a beautiful Winchester. I'd feel like a complete city-slicker-playing-cowboy if I ever got to shoot one All this gun-talk has got my curiousity piqued and I'm totally thinking of heading out to the range for one of their introductory courses - does this sound like a fun start?

Which Winchester? I've shown you two levers and three shotguns. That intro course sounds fine, just not enough blammo.

You want your interest really piqued, get yourself a copy of Unintended Consequences by John Ross from your local library.
Quote:

Originally Posted by mrarroyo /img/forum/go_quote.gif Anyone here remembers the 357 maximum?

Sure, an even longer .357 Rem Mag. So much gas pressure they caused actual metal cutting on the bottom of revolvers' topstraps at the front of the cylinder.

I toyed with getting a 14" Thompson center barrel for one and seeing what kind of varmint accuracy was available, but that was one gun project I actually walked away from.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, an even longer .357 Rem Mag. So much gas pressure they caused actual metal cutting on the bottom of revolvers' topstraps at the front of the cylinder. .

I can understand that with 357 Rem Mag, But I also have gas cutting on the cylinder arbour of my Colt dragoon repro.
Makes me wonder what alloy is used.
Wonder whether the original arms suffered similar cutting after many rounds?
Then again I would imagine modern users would be putting a lot more through the pistol than those of the 1850's.


.

 

[marvin]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sure, an even longer .357 Rem Mag. So much gas pressure they caused actual metal cutting on the bottom of revolvers' topstraps at the front of the cylinder. I toyed with getting a 14" Thompson center barrel for one and seeing what kind of varmint accuracy was available, but that was one gun project I actually walked away from.

I've had the opportunity to shoot a .357 Max SBH and talk to its owner. Not too bad to shoot with very impressive muzzle flash/blast, though I'd rather have one in .30 Carbine.

Really, the top strap cutting isn't as big of an issue as it's made out to be. Sure, running 125 grainers at half the speed of light isn't advisable, but it's really no different than top strap erosion on a K-frame with heavy 110/125 grain loads. The top strap erosion is self limiting, and forcing cone cracks will render either gun unshootable long before the top strap's structural integrity is ruined. It is an issue on the Scandium J-frames, but S&W provided those with a sacrificial steel shield to protect the top strap.

As a side note, my S&W 360 is one of the few guns I'm glad to be rid of. Shooting it with the Hogue Bantam grips was not too dissimilar to slamming a car door onto my hand.

 

[Old Pa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by setmenu /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can understand that with 357 Rem Mag, But I also have gas cutting on the cylinder arbour of my Colt dragoon repro. Makes me wonder what alloy is used.

Black powder shouldn't do that. Are you using actual black powder or one of the modern black powder substitutes? Who made your reproduction Dragoon?
Quote:

Originally Posted by marvin /img/forum/go_quote.gif As a side note, my S&W 360 is one of the few guns I'm glad to be rid of. Shooting it with the Hogue Bantam grips was not too dissimilar to slamming a car door onto my hand.

I had a ten inch .30 Herrett a couple of decades ago. One of the happiest days of my life when I swapped it off. With the wood grips that came with the T/C, it was exactly like hitting a stone wall with a baseball bat. Killed off both ends.

You made the cases up out of .30-30 brass. It was one light load to fireform the shoulder, and one full load to split the neck. Reloading frustration on the hoof.

 

[trains are bad]

I'm sorry if I voiced my opinions a little strongly. It's hard not to get worked up when it seems all you even get about your hobby is negativity, suspicion and accusations. It's like a battle from all sides just being a gun owner sometimes.

 

[setmenu]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Old Pa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Black powder shouldn't do that. Are you using actual black powder or one of the modern black powder substitutes? Who made your reproduction Dragoon?

Good point, I have also used Pyrodex for many rounds.
It is one of the Colt badged repros.
Regarding Bp not flame cutting, it certainly does with my
flintlock.
As you are probably aware, they used to fit touch hole liners
made from more resistant metals to the finer guns of years gone by.