[FourierMakesFunk]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif So you're saying that Mr. Grado thinks his taste in what will be most pleasing is superior to the taste of the engineers who mixed and mastered the original material? I always find it strange that someone would want to make a speaker or headphone that alters the sound that the original artists/producers/engineers created. If I listen to the Beatles "Rubber Soul" or some other well produced album I want to hear it with neutral/accurate headphones/speakers. If it's not exactly to my liking I can always use eq.

Mixing on Grados, as others has pointed out, would not lead to good results. HD600s (not HD650s) might work; K701s are loved by some for mixing, some who can't afford those like the K240/K241 (Mixes I've done on K241s turned out fine).

Grados would be nice to try out a track. Some engineers like mixing on flat monitors and testing with headphones and speakers to see how it will sound when people play it. I like to do that and also do the classic test: a crappy car's stereo. In that case the 225i's would be nice and you could use them for home listening if you like "the Grado sound" (I love my 325i's, but I would never use them for mixing, they are colored in a special way (brighter than most)).

The engineers generally mix and master the material assuming for coloration in home speakers. Studio monitors "sound boring" and make any recording flaws or issues stand out. They are designed to do that to let engineers pick up on things to fix in a mix. High-fi audio equipment is designed to make music sound good.

Personally I like the way Grados color some music, for other kinds of music I like neutral. It's just a matter of taste and please (this applies to everything I've said) de gustibus non est disputandum.

EQing to fix it to your liking rather than using headphone's with that sound can be more expensive and more trouble than it's worth (might crap up the signal), but that's a whole other area / debate.

So, if you don't have studio monitors (which are preferable) get the K701 or K240/241. If you have them, 225i (not 325i) would be nice for testing a mix.

 

[limpidglitch]

I must disagree on that it is as simple as the SR325i being a upgrade over SR225.
To me they have completely different personalities, 325i being aggressive and cynical, 225 being polite and inviting, resulting in a preference for 325i for electrical guitar and 225 for acoustic guitar.
I don't see myself parting with any of them in the near future, except maybe if I were to get a RS1, then the 225 might be superfluous.

 

[FourierMakesFunk]

I agree with what limpidglitch said completely.

I just looked at your inventory, you have some fine 'phones for mixing with. No need to get Grados unless you want them for listening, but they are for sure a try before buy. Try the K701s or HD600s (I haven't heard about people mixing with those though).

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

So you're saying that Mr. Grado thinks his taste in what will be most pleasing is superior to the taste of the engineers who mixed and mastered the original material? I always find it strange that someone would want to make a speaker or headphone that alters the sound that the original artists/producers/engineers created.

Its just a slight extra touch to make it sound more pleasing. If you want flat and as neutral as possible, stick with studio monitors like Genelecs. Like FourierMakesFunk pointed out, flat monitors are often very boring to listen. Hifi equipment in the other hand, be it speakers or headphones, often add extra touches to make it sound more natural. Natural, not neutral. What is natural, is debatable (as I said, different manufacturers have different opinions on this) and up to taste, ears and albums you listen.

 

[lejaz]

MaZa:
FWIR, I'm pretty certain it's more than just a "slight extra touch" that differentiates the Grados, or any other audiophile headphone, from a more neutral 'studio monitor' headphone. If it was just that "slight...touch", I would hear little difference between a Grado, a Sennheiser, and an AKG! I was just listening to my K240DF's last night with some of my favorite tunes, and as far as listening for pleasure goes, they fit me to a tee. They're supposed to be flat/neutral...good for mixing as well...so I think I'll keep them as my primary set of cans for now. I was thinking of getting the Grados as an alternative 'take' on my mixes, but if they're as colored as people are telling me, I'll most likely pass. My mdr-v6's probably give me a sound closer to a typical consumer stereo system, so they might be good to check mixes on. I don't know that the higher end AKG's will be that different from what I've already got, so if I get a good price on some used DT150's perhaps I'll try those for something with better low end. They get a lot of love here. The bass on the DF's is their only short coming, IMO.

Thanks to all for the interesting takes on the Grados. I was under the impression that it was only the lower end Grado's that were so highly 'colored'...not the more pricey ones...seems that impression was 'colored' as well!

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

MaZa: FWIR, I'm pretty certain it's more than just a "slight extra touch" that differentiates the Grados, or any other audiophile headphone, from a more neutral 'studio monitor' headphone. If it was just that "slight...touch", I would hear little difference between a Grado, a Sennheiser, and an AKG! I was just listening to my K240DF's last night with some of my favorite tunes, and as far as listening for pleasure goes, they fit me to a tee. They're supposed to be flat/neutral...good for mixing as well...so I think I'll keep them as my primary set of cans for now. I was thinking of getting the Grados as an alternative 'take' on my mixes, but if they're as colored as people are telling me, I'll most likely pass. My mdr-v6's probably give me a sound closer to a typical consumer stereo system, so they might be good to check mixes on. I don't know that the higher end AKG's will be that different from what I've already got, so if I get a good price on some used DT150's perhaps I'll try those for something with better low end. They get a lot of love here. The bass on the DF's is their only short coming, IMO. Thanks to all for the interesting takes on the Grados. I was under the impression that it was only the lower end Grado's that were so highly 'colored'...not the more pricey ones...seems that impression was 'colored' as well!

Remember, we are music lovers and audiophiles, not professional mixers and masteres. (well, most of us are not anyway?)

Also to confuse you more, even studio monitors sound different from each other. Costly monitors all designed to sound as flat as possible, yet they still have differences in sound according to reviews and measurements. Perhaps less differences than between hifi speakers, but still differences. So, what is 100% unaltered sound in the end?

I guess what is most important is to find relatively neutral equipment and get used to them and know their sound through out, so slight possible colorations and peaks wont really affect your mixing? Just guessing.

 

[MaZa]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lejaz /img/forum/go_quote.gif MaZa: FWIR, I'm pretty certain it's more than just a "slight extra touch" that differentiates the Grados, or any other audiophile headphone, from a more neutral 'studio monitor' headphone. If it was just that "slight...touch", I would hear little difference between a Grado, a Sennheiser, and an AKG! I was just listening to my K240DF's last night with some of my favorite tunes, and as far as listening for pleasure goes, they fit me to a tee. They're supposed to be flat/neutral...good for mixing as well...so I think I'll keep them as my primary set of cans for now. I was thinking of getting the Grados as an alternative 'take' on my mixes, but if they're as colored as people are telling me, I'll most likely pass. My mdr-v6's probably give me a sound closer to a typical consumer stereo system, so they might be good to check mixes on. I don't know that the higher end AKG's will be that different from what I've already got, so if I get a good price on some used DT150's perhaps I'll try those for something with better low end. They get a lot of love here. The bass on the DF's is their only short coming, IMO. Thanks to all for the interesting takes on the Grados. I was under the impression that it was only the lower end Grado's that were so highly 'colored'...not the more pricey ones...seems that impression was 'colored' as well!

I completely forgot to mention! There are also way less colored Grados around. They are sold under the name of Alessandro. They are Grados customised and tweaked to George Alessandros, a guy whos business is around guitars and guitar amps, design. They are quite neutral, according to some much closer to old Joseph Grados headphones, and marketed to music industry. I have owned MS1 model, and while it had some Grado sound, it was way less peaky and punchy and far more neutral than SR225, SR325i and RS1 I own/have owned.
http://www.alessandro-products.com/m...p?p=headphones

 

[lejaz]

MaZa:
Thanks for the heads up on the Alessandro's. I'll look into those for sure. A more 'neutral' Grado would be ideal. FWIR the difference in frequency response between one model of good monitor speakers and another is a lot less than that between different models of audiophile headphones...say between a Grado and a Sennheiser, for example. I'd love to be able to compare the HD600's, and also the beyer dt150 and AKG 701/02, to some high end monitor speakers. I wonder if anyone here has had the opportunity to do something like that.

 

[FourierMakesFunk]

I did compare the K701s while recording to the nice studio monitors. They were in no means replacements for the monitors, but seemed revealed some additional sounds. I am not fully sure why the engineer had them, but I seem to remember he used them just to get a different perspective on the track and check his work. As for the HD600s, as I said before, I've never heard from my recording friends of anyone using them in studio. The DT 150 tends to be used for monitoring (drums usually, at least in my experience) since it has good isolation, but some engineers love the things (supposed to be rugged as hell, good and clear/neutral for mixing vocals and easily serviceable).

 

[FourierMakesFunk]

Just out of curiosity, why kind of set up are you recording with? I sort of a big dork when it comes to microphones and such... I should find some hobbies other people can understand.

 

[lejaz]

Recording vocals with AT3035 and Heil PR35 mics at the moment into Aphex 107 preamp...guitar direct into emu 0404 with Amplitube and other plugins. Presently looking for a better LDC, since the 3035 is very boring and dull on my voice, and the PR35 is too sibilant. Aphex 107 microphone preamp going into the emu 0404 usb for the converters to get the signal into the computer. Event alp5 monitors.

 

[orkney]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaZa /img/forum/go_quote.gif Whoa! John Grado headphones are far from neutral! Their sound rocks, but I cant imagine someone doing any mixing with them.

Not true. I've seen SR325is in at least three studios, two of which do very high end work and are internationally regarded, and Alessandros are also fairly common in studio use. Makes more sense when you realize that actual mixing/ mastering exclusively via headphones is fairly rare. You're often using them as a check on detail, tonal fidelity, etc., against monitoring speakers.

o

 

[majkel]

The SR325i's are very realistic and I don't mind having them for mixing. The RS series is more refined but with a tint of nice woody coloration, the SR325i's timbre is neutral, just dense. The SR225 is a different, much inferior league. If I were to save some money, I'd just buy the SR60's. The SR325i is the border from which the Grado hi-end starts if only the rest of the rig is matched quality-wise.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Quote:

Originally Posted by majkel /img/forum/go_quote.gif The SR325i's are very realistic and I don't mind having them for mixing. The RS series is more refined but with a tint of nice woody coloration, the SR325i's timbre is neutral, just dense. The SR225 is a different, much inferior league. If I were to save some money, I'd just buy the SR60's. The SR325i is the border from which the Grado hi-end starts if only the rest of the rig is matched quality-wise.

Here's my short story, I picked up the new SR225i headphones when they were first released and listened to them for 3 weeks, but just found them lacking. I tried a friends SR325i headphones and was shocked at the fuller sound stage and awesome bass.

Since I had 30 days to return my SR225i headphones, I happily upgraded to the SR325is headphones and have not looked back since. Much better bass, more refined mids and highs. Overall a much better product.

Don't cheap out on the SR325is headphones as you'll be wondering later what you could have had.

 

[Suigeneris]

I was set on buying the sr225i's by the end of this summer, however I would not mind just going for the 325is if the difference is really worth it. I currently use the ATH AD700 and ATH M50's and looking to give grados or alessandros a chance. Looking for a set of headphones that are fun to listen to and have a punch in bass. I'm not a bass head but I want some cans that are, again, just fun.

Now I'm torn between the 225is, 325i's and alessandro MS2
Help!