[Ypoknons]

hhm.... okay HF2 no sub-bass, that's cool, but I thought impact reflected mid-bass instead? Not sure what sub-bass impact would sound like, I can imagine a sub-bass 'note' ...
 
Also impedance isn't a measure of how difficult something is to drive, it's a matter of power not impedance, a 25ohm HE-5 is as hard to drive as a 600ohm Beyer, maybe more so. I guess the part I don't understand is what really makes Grados tap your toes, what kind of characteristics we're looking for... 

 

[JxK]

Ok, looks like the beyer DT 990 is out. I looked at headroom's frequency response graph and it looks like they over emphasize mid-bass rather than sub-bass. So basically I think they'll be to warm for my taste. Nearly +10db @100-200Hz, way way too warm. And then they start to roll off early just like the grados. The DT880 looks to be the same, save for the elevated mid-bass. So it's probably off the list as well.

 
@Ypoknons
I'm not really sure what it is about grados that makes them fun to listen to. It might be the forward midrange and sparkle in the treble, but I truly don't know for sure. Not that the sound doesn't have flaws, which is why I'm looking for that more balanced presentation (more bass quantity) without giving up grado's fun factor.

 

[supersleuth]

The mid-bass hump of the DT990 is definitely prominent- that's exactly what I didn't like about them, though it really doesn't mask higher frequencies in any serious way- but as that graph also shows, the low bass is very much present as well. Note that the 0 dB point isn't reached until about 20 HZ, the threshold of audibility. In the end they weren't quite my flavor, but they're impressive cans.

 

[Ikarios]

Gonna keep an eye on this thread - I too am looking for a Grado with more soundstage (specifically, I wanted a mix between lower-end Grados and the AD700 - a fun presentation, but not overly fatiguing; a great soundstage; detail at the mid and high ends; and at least some bass impact - Grado level is just peachy). I was thinking Ultrasone (say, HFI-780s?) or modded Beyers (Darths?), but really, I have no idea.

 

[johan851]

 
Quote:

Ok, looks like the beyer DT 990 is out. I looked at headroom's frequency response graph and it looks like they over emphasize mid-bass rather than sub-bass. So basically I think they'll be to warm for my taste. Nearly +10db @100-200Hz, way way too warm. And then they start to roll off early just like the grados. The DT880 looks to be the same, save for the elevated mid-bass. So it's probably off the list as well.

 
You're right that the mid-bass is big - I don't like that either.  But you're going to encounter low end rolloff like that with any cans, and with any speakers if you go low enough.  The rolloff is there because the drivers simply aren't large enough and can't move enough air.  It looks like the DT990 driver compensates for this by having a big 100-200Hz presence, which means that the inevitable rolloff as the frequency goes below 100Hz is still around 0dB at 20Hz.  The low bass just isn't going to get more prominent than that.  It sounds like you want a flat response out to 20Hz, and that simply isn't possible from a headphone-sized driver.  You'd need a 10-12" woofer to get behavior like that.
 
Looks like the DT770 has similar behavior, but not as bad of a midbass hump.  If frequency charts are what you're after, it actually looks fairly decent for a headphone.

 

[JxK]

The DT 770 looks interesting, let me go and read a bit about it. And would either the ath-m50 or denon d5000 work here? I'm afraid that the m50 doesn't have the necessary treble sparkle and soundstage and the d5000 has too much mid-bass warmth, but I haven't heard them so I could easily be wrong.

 

[supersleuth]

By the way, Grados can produce a decent soundstage- a bit "front row" because of the emphasis in the "presence" frequency range, but actually pretty natural-sounding. You have to get the drivers away from your ears and angled a bit. You accomplish this by using bowls and wearing them on the ears, low and forward. Sorry to be a broken record about this but I've come to believe that Grados sometimes get a bad rap from people who have never heard them this way.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

By the way, Grados can produce a decent soundstage- a bit "front row" because of the emphasis in the "presence" frequency range, but actually pretty natural-sounding. You have to get the drivers away from your ears and angled a bit. You accomplish this by using bowls and wearing them on the ears, low and forward. Sorry to be a broken record about this but I've come to believe that Grados sometimes get a bad rap from people who have never heard them this way.

I always put them right in the middle. I will try your rec' but is it not uncomfortable?
sound interesting..does it reduce the sharp treble a bit?

 

[supersleuth]

Yes, it does tame the treble somewhat, as well as reducing overall volume and making the sound less "in your face"- a much more appropriate sound for classical music, for example. (Frankly if I listened with the drivers firing straight into my ears I'd have retired my SR80s years ago.) To make it comfortable you have to bend the headband enough for a very loose fit so there's almost no pressure on your ears- just enough to keep them from falling off. Having done that I can wear them comfortably for hours.

 

[plonter]

Quote:

Yes, it does tame the treble somewhat, as well as reducing overall volume and making the sound less "in your face"- a much more appropriate sound for classical music, for example. (Frankly if I listened with the drivers firing straight into my ears I'd have retired my SR80s years ago.) To make it comfortable you have to bend the headband enough for a very loose fit so there's almost no pressure on your ears- just enough to keep them from falling off. Having done that I can wear them comfortably for hours.

I will try that.  but how much exactly farward and down do they need to be?
 

 

[rhythmdevils]

vixen

 

[Rangiroa]

I went from a Grado Sr-80 to the beyer Dt990 (2010) and I cannot listen to the grados anymore. As far as im concerned, you shouldnt rule out the headphone based on a graph you found online. you never know how its going to sound with your particular setup.
 
 
The Dt990 with my millet tube amp rocks. I found myself tapping my toes the other day so i think it has that grado energy with a bigger soundstage. I kept hearing things about how there is too much bass, blah blah blah. Once I got them and tried them I loved them.
 
Before I had the dt990 i thought the grados were just excellent especially for the types of music I liked. So i am definately a fan of the grado house sound. I dont want to come off as a grado hater here, i love them. In fact I have an SR 225 as well and I feel like the beyers sound is nearly the same as the 225 except there is just more of it.
 
For me, I suspect the tubes are a good compliment for the beyer sound since it accentuates the mids a little through my amp.

All im saying is, maybe you should give the dt990 a chance instead of writing it off based off a computer chart. maybe they will sound wonderful to your ears too.
 
Whatever you do, just dive in and enjoy the music. I banged my head against the wall for 3 weeks straight tryign to decide which headphone to get.

 

[MarkJnK]

The GS1000 meets your criteria, and for a more controlled sound with great bass slam and sparkly highs, I third the suggestion of the DT990/600.  Currently my favorite headphone... and they're cheap right now.  Win Win.

 

[supersleuth]

Quote:

I will try that.  but how much exactly forward and down do they need to be?
 

Align the back and top edges of the pads with the back and top of your outer ears- or even a tiny bit ahead of / below them. You want the centers of the drivers significantly forward of and lower than the level of your ear canals. This will actually widen the perceived soundstage with any can: see the "tips and tricks" on the Meier Audio website.

 

[MarkJnK]

Quote:

By the way, Grados can produce a decent soundstage- a bit "front row" because of the emphasis in the "presence" frequency range, but actually pretty natural-sounding. You have to get the drivers away from your ears and angled a bit. You accomplish this by using bowls and wearing them on the ears, low and forward. Sorry to be a broken record about this but I've come to believe that Grados sometimes get a bad rap from people who have never heard them this way.

You just described the GS1000... couldn't agree more.