[iKonoKlast]

There are a variety of reasons I'm hesitant to jump on the headphone amp bandwagon:

1. The minuscule improvement in sound quality. I've owned the Total Bithead and all I could tell, and only if I tried extremely hard, was that it added slightly more bass and added a hint of sparkle to the treble. Really, the biggest difference was that it made my listening experience more fatiguing. This was with the HD595 and D2000.

2. The desktop clutter, as aforementioned. And I'm a college student who has to move around every several months for crying out loud! Portable amps don't seem worth it to me since I don't own iPods or any other portable devices, and the consensus seems to be that desktop amps provide greater value in terms of SQ.

3. My computer is my one and only source for music. If I get an amp, I'll also need an external DAC to really hear the improvement with an amp, right? Again, more desktop clutter.

4. Money. I like to spend what little money I have on other stuff too.

As you might understand, I strive for a balance of all things; I don't want a bunch of extra stuff just to improve a few songs where I'll actually notice a difference. I want the greatest possible musical experience with the least stuff possible. And I think it's possible with simply a MBP + RS1 setup. But these are just my thoughts now. Who knows... maybe I will get tired of just the unamped RS1 someday and try out an amp/DAC combo. I'm open to things but for now, doing this my way seems like the best way.

 

[nick20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iKonoKlast /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are a variety of reasons I'm hesitant to jump on the headphone amp bandwagon: 1. The minuscule improvement in sound quality. I've owned the Total Bithead and all I could tell, and only if I tried extremely hard, was that it added slightly more bass and added a hint of sparkle to the treble. Really, the biggest difference was that it made my listening experience more fatiguing. This was with the HD595 and D2000. 2. The desktop clutter, as aforementioned. And I'm a college student who has to move around every several months for crying out loud! Portable amps don't seem worth it to me since I don't own iPods or any other portable devices, and the consensus seems to be that desktop amps provide greater value in terms of SQ. 3. My computer is my one and only source for music. If I get an amp, I'll also need an external DAC to really hear the improvement with an amp, right? Again, more desktop clutter. 4. Money. I like to spend what little money I have on other stuff too. As you might understand, I strive for a balance of all things; I don't want a bunch of extra stuff just to improve a few songs where I'll actually notice a difference. I want the greatest possible musical experience with the least stuff possible. And I think it's possible with simply a MBP + RS1 setup. But these are just my thoughts now. Who knows... maybe I will get tired of just the unamped RS1 someday and try out an amp/DAC combo. I'm open to things but for now, doing this my way seems like the best way.

2. Get a portable with built-in DAC.

3. See two.

4. Money!? But you have $700 to spend on a pair of headphones..

EDIT: For a pair of $700 out of the headphone out, the laws of diminishing returns creeps up REAL quick. I would say your better off with a pair of SR225's, than the RS1's, but that's my opinion. It's your money..

 

[Zodduska]

Yeah, I think that's fine. It's not really a bad idea to get high end headphones now if you can afford them because you can always get other gear to go with them later down the line and not feel the need to upgrade phones.

When you were amping a mediocre source I'm not suprised you werent too satisfied with it, source is by far the most important element in the chain IMHO.

If you are interested in getting the best sound for your budget now without spending any more money on gear down the road you may be better served by getting a used portable dac/amp like the Predator or Pico and somewhat cheaper but still very good phones.. I could be wrong as I have never heard the RS-1, just a suggestion.

 

[Abbadon]

2, I'm in university, and I move every four months. But I don't regret having a really bulky setup that takes up the entire back seat of my car..
3. Yes you will. The headphone jack on your laptop isn't nearly as good as a dedicated DAC. The chain is only as strong as the weakest link.
4. The difference between my rs1's straight out of my computers headphone jack and through a 50$ portable(govibe 5) and 100$ dac(205.2) is substantial as far as audio gains go. It's a bigger difference than the difference between said setup and my home rig.

If I had to do it all again, knowing what I now know, I'd still buy my home rig. But I could be perfectly content with the RS-1's out of a ~200$ setup. If I wasn't going to spend the money on an amp/dac, I'd stick with the sr225's unamped.

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iKonoKlast /img/forum/go_quote.gif There are a variety of reasons I'm hesitant to jump on the headphone amp bandwagon: 1. The minuscule improvement in sound quality. I've owned the Total Bithead and all I could tell, and only if I tried extremely hard, was that it added slightly more bass and added a hint of sparkle to the treble. Really, the biggest difference was that it made my listening experience more fatiguing. This was with the HD595 and D2000. 2. The desktop clutter, as aforementioned. And I'm a college student who has to move around every several months for crying out loud! Portable amps don't seem worth it to me since I don't own iPods or any other portable devices, and the consensus seems to be that desktop amps provide greater value in terms of SQ. 3. My computer is my one and only source for music. If I get an amp, I'll also need an external DAC to really hear the improvement with an amp, right? Again, more desktop clutter. 4. Money. I like to spend what little money I have on other stuff too. As you might understand, I strive for a balance of all things; I don't want a bunch of extra stuff just to improve a few songs where I'll actually notice a difference. I want the greatest possible musical experience with the least stuff possible. And I think it's possible with simply a MBP + RS1 setup. But these are just my thoughts now. Who knows... maybe I will get tired of just the unamped RS1 someday and try out an amp/DAC combo. I'm open to things but for now, doing this my way seems like the best way.

ikonoklast, your posts strike me as somewhat odd...vexes me, in fact. i do understand your hesitation with external amplifiers. but then again, i see that you've only experienced a few (or just one?). amps are not all built the same.

as for your first point, i think whether or not amplifiers enhance the sound is pretty much not in doubt. how much they enhance the sound may be debatable, but they do and different amps do so to differing levels. but whether or not you enjoy it is certainly up to you and that is not up for debate. but if you don't enjoy the amplified sound signature, don't use it. simple as that.

point 2...clutter is understandable. i have way too much crap on my desk. an opus DAC, the gs-x, monoblocks for the k1000, etc. when will it ever end!!?? so if you don't want the clutter, don't get an amp. but good things do come in little packages. my pico sounds better than other desktop amps i've owned in the past.

point 3...understandable. you don't want clutter.

point 4...money? understandable. we all have choices to make...some choose amplifiers, some don't. you seem like a don't kind of guy.

i have no problems with you wanting to just use your rs1...and if you're happy with that, i think that's terrific. we could all be better about being happy and content with our equipment and, as they say, just enjoy the music.

what rubs me and some others the wrong way here is your insinuation that amplifiers are just a "bandwagon" thing...that because you don't believe in them that much you think the rest of us are being hornswoggled or duped into false beliefs about the benefits of amplifiers. are we all just trying to justify our purchases? do we only hear improvements because we've purchased these expensive add-ons and force ourselves into believing they were worth it? wow, that's a very cynical view of what we do here. i don't doubt that some of it goes on, but if you don't hear improvements with an amp, how can you be so sure that others don't?

i don't think people here are trying to force you into adding an amp and/or DAC to your setup...most were just telling you what they've experienced and what they've found to be true in their case. at least that's what i've been reading in this thread...but if i've put words in your mouth i apologize in advance.

 

[iKonoKlast]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kugino /img/forum/go_quote.gif what rubs me and some others the wrong way here is your insinuation that amplifiers are just a "bandwagon" thing...that because you don't believe in them that much you think the rest of us are being hornswoggled or duped into false beliefs about the benefits of amplifiers. are we all just trying to justify our purchases? do we only hear improvements because we've purchased these expensive add-ons and force ourselves into believing they were worth it? wow, that's a very cynical view of what we do here. i don't doubt that some of it goes on, but if you don't hear improvements with an amp, how can you be so sure that others don't?

It is not my intention to vex or upset anyone. I'm simply expressing my opinion based on the experience I've had; the same goes for any other poster. As I've restated before, I don't consider the tiny amount of improvement provided by a DAC/amp to be worth the money and clutter. To some, that small gain is worth all that; to me, it's not. Maybe it's all just because I don't have the same trained ears as you do. Simple as that.

The term 'bandwagon' came to mind simply because you all seem like a fervent group with an undying passion for your hobby. Also, many of you became defensive very quickly, especially considering that none of my posts have been particularly incendiary... but rather based on my opinion from what little experience I've had. I've not had the privilege to own all the most expensive amps and headphones, so the opinion I've formulated so far is based on my limited experience. That's what I was trying to convey from the start: that to me, the improvement gained from headphone amps don't seem to be all that. That to me, at this point in my life, it doesn't seem worth it. As my situation improves and as I become more aurally acute, of course I will be open then to try out some synergetic DACs/amps to match my RS1. Please, enough of the bad blood.

Also, this is not to you, kugino, but to a lot of others who've replied in this thread. I've noticed that a lot of your responses completely contradict what I've written in my posts, meaning you don't completely read my posts before making your remarks. I'm disappointed that a lot of you choose to repeat the same talking points rather than understand what I'm trying to convey. This has led to a lot of misunderstanding and, consequently, vexation.

 

[Torula Yeast]

A bit too much tension in this thread, ya ask me. Hey, I haven't heard a Total BitHead, but I did send for a Total AirHead (to hear outta my iPod w/SR60s), and was well nigh disappointed by the results. Then I got a HeadRoom Micro Amp, and lo, found amp religion.

Well, sorta. My Micro is the preferred way for me to hear my Grados, but I can stick either my GS-1Ks or humble SR-125s right into the iPod and *not* be disappointed by the sound.

Assuming a decent source, headphones are the most obvious way to up your listening pleasure. Get the RS-1s, enjoy, and don't fret. You wanna upgrade later, you can, but make no mistake -- your RS-1s will get you the max pleasure straight from your Mac possible for the expenditure.

 

[kugino]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iKonoKlast /img/forum/go_quote.gif It is not my intention to vex or upset anyone. I'm simply expressing my opinion based on the experience I've had; the same goes for any other poster. As I've restated before, I don't consider the tiny amount of improvement provided by a DAC/amp to be worth the money and clutter. To some, that small gain is worth all that; to me, it's not. Maybe it's all just because I don't have the same trained ears as you do. Simple as that. The term 'bandwagon' came to mind simply because you all seem like a fervent group with an undying passion for your hobby. Also, many of you became defensive very quickly, especially considering that none of my posts have been particularly incendiary... but rather based on my opinion from what little experience I've had. I've not had the privilege to own all the most expensive amps and headphones, so the opinion I've formulated so far is based on my limited experience. That's what I was trying to convey from the start: that to me, the improvement gained from headphone amps don't seem to be all that. That to me, at this point in my life, it doesn't seem worth it. As my situation improves and as I become more aurally acute, of course I will be open then to try out some synergetic DACs/amps to match my RS1. Please, enough of the bad blood. Also, this is not to you, kugino, but to a lot of others who've replied in this thread. I've noticed that a lot of your responses completely contradict what I've written in my posts, meaning you don't completely read my posts before making your remarks. I'm disappointed that a lot of you choose to repeat the same talking points rather than understand what I'm trying to convey. This has led to a lot of misunderstanding and, consequently, vexation.

thanks for clearing that up, ikonoklast. i think most here understand...we're all just here trying to enjoy this hobby and our music as best as we can...and perhaps help one another in the process.

 

[Jingo Lingo]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zodduska /img/forum/go_quote.gif If you are interested in getting the best sound for your budget now without spending any more money on gear down the road you may be better served by getting a used portable dac/amp like the Predator or Pico and somewhat cheaper but still very good phones.. I could be wrong as I have never heard the RS-1, just a suggestion.

I don't get this. If you have any given budget for any given set up you should spend all the money you can on the best set of phones you can afford IMHO. Headphones make BY FAR the biggest difference in a set up. Why spend half on an amp/source and half on some phones? That's totally ridiculous to me. I can understand if it was say an RS-1 or some end-of-the-line phone, but not say an SR-225. Not to mention if you do upgrade your phones to go with your source later on you're losing more money.

 

[nick20]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jingo Lingo /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't get this. If you have any given budget for any given set up you should spend all the money you can on the best set of phones you can afford IMHO. Headphones make BY FAR the biggest difference in a set up. Why spend half on an amp/source and half on some phones? That's totally ridiculous to me. I can understand if it was say an RS-1 or some end-of-the-line phone, but not say an SR-225. Not to mention if you do upgrade your phones to go with your source later on you're losing more money.

While I respectfully disagree with you, I understand where your coming from.

I won't go into details why I believe the information your feeding him is correct. But you obviously haven't had high-end phones plugged into an "ok" system, versus good phones being feed into an "excellent" source/amp. A pair of good headphones, good amp/dac and good source certainly outperform a pair of high-end headphones plugged directly into a computer.

I have experience trying both ways, and currently upgraded my source once again with dual Wolfson 8470 DAC chips.

 

[DARKHAVEN]

iKonoKlast, if you don't mind me saying so, you are being rather close-minded. While you may say your statements are not incidiary, your attitude is. You call yourself a cynic, but you are going way beyond that. You claim some of us are just drinking the amp koolaid, but its clear you've already made up your mind, so why elicit our opinions? To hold such a strong opinion against the benefits of amplifiers simply because you tried one amp, a total bithead, is absurd. If you'd ever tried a high quality amp, you might notice the results to be more than "miniscule." As you never have, your strong stance is coming across as shockingly ignorant.

Down to the substance of your post. It is my recommendation (take it for what its worth), that you consider the SR-325 or SR-225, both are fantastic headphones, unamped and you will save a lot of money. You speak of balance, and I totally get that. I don't think you will get nearly twice the sound improvement going from the SR-325 to the RS1, despite paying twice the price. In fact, based on your comments, I would strongly recommend against the RS1, it just doesn't make sense. You could use the difference, a not insignificant $350ish, for many other pursuits. Just a thought.

 

[DarKu]

Grado SR225/325i + a 400$ Amp/Dac combo sounds BETTER by far versus RS-1 alone
if you don't plan to have a good amp/dac, it's just a waste of money

Speeaking of myself, i had Sr60 an then upgraded to Sr325i without a dedicated amp and DAC i cannot tell a big difference, just a verry smal one.
having now a DAc and an AMP the difference is Huuge!

BTW Bithead is pretty underpowered amp, too underpowered.
Search on "For sale" threads you can find there a headamp Gilmore Lite, or GS-1 at a decent price, Headamp Gilmore amps have a GREAT sinergy with grados!

and ...sorry for my english

 

[OutdoorXplorer]

just to rub salt to this event here. i am pairing my rs-1 with rsa xp-7 with dedicated power supply and with amp upgrade as recommened by ray samuels.

 

[myk7000]

If you plan to get an amp eventually, Id go with the RS-1s.

I too agree the difference isn't as exaggerated as people say for the price you pay with amps. I mean more for the amp than the headphones? Seriously it boggles my mind.

However I can't deny an amp's impressive addition to headphones. Thus, I think my plan is the same as yours. Keep the RS-1, enjoy them, then get an amp about 3 years down the line once u got some more money. Keep the phones, no need to upgrade them. Getting an amp by then is like basically upgrading ur headphones.

 

[vvanrij]

Sometimes its better to spend 50-50 on an amp and headphone, then 100 on a headphone. Wait.. sometimes? No let me correct that, most of he times! Get the chain in order people source-amp-headphone's. The quality you will listen to is the WEAKEST LINK.