[ClaudeRaines]

Quote:

Originally Posted by cwilson /img/forum/go_quote.gif These pics make me think that John to be the winner of profit earning against all his rivals. I don't find any John's heavy investment on the capital from the pic.

I think maybe John "Thinks" he is the profit leader. Disorganization causes money to slip through your fingers at an alarming rate.

 

[rhythmdevils]

more than the content of the photographs, i think the biggest difference between the two is that the Sennheiser pictures are advertisements, made by a professional photographer, to create a specific image that Sennheiser wants. The grado pictures are just some dude with a camera. I'm sure if they wanted, they could make pictures just like the Sennheiser ones. I mean god knows what the pro photographer just barely cropped out of the frame in the Sennheiser pictures, or wasn't photographed at all, to which the dude with camera in the grado lab used no discretion.

Just an idea. Keep fighting now...

 

[atomiccow]

I find it very odd that people are defending Grado in this position because they know they are made in America and therefore this kind of production can be considered "craft." Of course many products manufactured in China are also built in factories that look like this and yet people would call those "crap." lol

All I can say is that the reason Grado probably doesn't move to larger production is simply because there is not enough demand for there products that warrants the costs of moving to automated, large volume production. The fixed cost of such a move would be enormous. Sennheiser on the other hand, is a massive company that creates a much larger volume and variety of products compared to Grado and therefore have moved to automated production a long time ago. It's not like they bought all that equipment and the whole plant for the manufacture of the HD800, that equipment and plant is for manufacturing all their products. Also because Sennheiser supplies products in bulk to many other corporations and not just private consumers like Grado, their production lines must manufacture to a higher standard. Basically, Grado can afford to have one or two unhappy customers since the loss of such customers doesn't incur too great a cost. Sennheiser can't afford to lose one of two customers because their real customers are those that buy quantities of thousands of products and not just one or two headphones in a couple of years. It's not really a question of who cares more about the sound or the quality of the products.

The benefit I find in Sennheiser's automated production is that they can produce much more complicated products with things like removable cables, stepped height adjusters, and pads that are actually designed to fit around the ears. Whereas Grado has to get by with leather wrapped, wire headbands, metal poles for height adjustment, and circular foam pads that have to be the size of your face to fully fit around your ears.

 

[cwilson]

this pic. may be an good explanation for those scratch marks and damages are being found on the new released PSK.

 

[jjsoviet]

Seriously, I see nothing wrong with Grado's workplace. It is a small-medium scale manufacturer that has a limited market compared to Sennheiser. The demand is not high enough to warrant a full-scale assembly after all. Regarding the aesthetics of the workplace, I don't think it is actually that bad. The headphones are stacked neatly and the workers are sure doing their work in an organized way. Maybe I can comment on the insanely large pile of parts that should be put in larger storage bins, but that's about it.

 

[IPodPJ]

We saw these pics ages ago. But I'll bite anyway. If this is their production facility, where is their R&D lab? In the shower?

Seriously, and people wonder why they have scratches on their products? Yet people still keep enabling them to deliver the same goods with poor build quality. I guarantee if you guys stopped buying their products for a month or two, the level of build quality would increase substantially.

There is nothing wrong with a company run out of their home if you have adequate room to store your merchandise carefully. Even if I liked Grados, I wouldn't buy one after seeing a ton of headphones piled up overflowing from a cardboard box. If these pictures are actually on their website then what that really says to the customer is something I won't post in this thread.

 

[Drumonron]

Folks, please stop this constant bashing and negativity. I have purchased from Grado and their products have been exceptional without flaws but for one problem on an RS-1 the channels were swapped, right was left and left was right. I dealt with it as I would with any other product, I called the company(actually the vendor, ttvj.com who brokered the repair via GradoLabs-no questions asked and were apologetic and extremely caring to the issue and my happiness) and they paid for shipping both ways and the repair was free and quick. You have the power to buy or not buy...you have the power to return flawed products...you are the consumer but you must act. If you choose not to buy then so be it but what is going on here?

 

[Vandal]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif Look they're smiling, they must be happy earning minimum wage and coming home smelling of grease. Burger King are obviously a professionaly, high paying (more than Formula 1 drivers)

While I don't disagree about the quality of Grados and will not argue your point the logic used here is appalling. Workers working on something will rarely smile yet the burger king pic you posted clearly shows employees posing for a snap. There's a stark difference right? I'm sure even grimy coal mine workers would smile and pose if someone held up a camera and asked them for a photo right?
Agree with you atomiccow. People who think this is good ol' old school assembling should take a look at some of the manufacturing plants in Taiwan and Taipei. I've visited ASUS' and MSIs plants - now that's professional. Of course building boards is different from headphones so I'll refrain from commenting.

For the record, Sennheisers plant seems a more organised and the setup better. I also own cans made by both vendors and personally love em both

 

[Hadakan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by gevorg /img/forum/go_quote.gif Who cares? He made the best instruments that no German high-tech mumbo jumbo can outperform to date.

Stradivarius - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

"However, the many blind tests from 1817 to the present (as of 2000) have never found any difference in sound between Stradivarii and high-quality violins in comparable style of other makers and periods, nor has acoustic analysis.[3] In a particularly famous test on a BBC Radio 3 program in 1977, the great violinists Isaac Stern and Pinchas Zukerman and the violin expert and dealer Charles Beare tried to distinguish among the "Chaconne" Stradivarius, a 1739 Guarneri del Gesú, an 1846 Vuillaume, and a 1976 British violin played behind a screen by a professional soloist. The two violinists were allowed to play all the instruments first. None of the listeners identified more than two of the four instruments; two of the listeners identified the 20th-century violin as the Stradivarius.[4]"

 

[stvn758]

How much does a good pair of headphones cost? Where does the cost of the materials end and the art of sound begin. Judging by that Grado Amp it wouldn't surprise me if John Grado didn't deliberately make it cheap so he could sit back and have a little laugh at the critics who praised it's superlative symbiotic transparency and such like.

Of course when your headphones sound as good as his do you can't complain, especially considering the affordability of most of them.

What do a pair of HD 800's actually cost to make, I do wonder.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tvrboy /img/forum/go_quote.gif First, why do you have a problem with people saying negative things about Grado?

Fair question, and I guess I'd ask you the same: Why do you have a problem with people saying negative things about those who criticize Grado?

Seems fair to me that if you jump into a public forum and voice your opinion, then others can do the same.

 

[ClaudeRaines]

Anyone here willing to tack on 100 dollars to the price of a set of SR225's so Grado can have a nicer looking work space for their employees?

 

[CrusaderFool]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vandal /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm sure even grimy coal mine workers would smile and pose if someone held up a camera and asked them for a photo right?

 

[robm321]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif more than the content of the photographs, i think the biggest difference between the two is that the Sennheiser pictures are advertisements, made by a professional photographer, to create a specific image that Sennheiser wants. The grado pictures are just some dude with a camera. I'm sure if they wanted, they could make pictures just like the Sennheiser ones. I mean god knows what the pro photographer just barely cropped out of the frame in the Sennheiser pictures, or wasn't photographed at all, to which the dude with camera in the grado lab used no discretion. Just an idea. Keep fighting now...

Bingo! Seems that people don't get marketing and take things at a very superficial level. Some never looking beyond that which is why it is still so effective.

I actually appreciate Grados more candid approach. At least it doesn't insult my intelligence. Like that German lady focusing with pride on the assembly line with a perfectly clean outfit... puleeez

Anyway, it doesn't matter. They both back their products, so if there's a problem you get it fixed or your money back. I have had no issues with either Sennheisser or Grado phones that I've owned personally.

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sakhai /img/forum/go_quote.gif Lets get an opinion of someone who runs these companies you work for. Someone who's in charge of determining the cost/benefit decisions of corporations. I'm not convinced by any guessing done by someone who works for a major company. Fortune 500 companies hire how many blue collar workers?

Sakhai, your arguments are interesting. But confusing.

In this paragraph, you say, "I'm not convinced by any guessing done by someone who works for a major company." First, why are you assuming Tenzip is "guessing"? Second, by "runs these companies" do you mean owner(s) or CEO? Are you saying that their views are more valid than the workers'? Also, in many cases, owners and chief execs draw paychecks from the company and are therefore "workers" too. Using your logic, you don't trust their word, too?
Quote:

Would you be more convinced if people judged the product not by the environment that it was built in, but by the actual product itself?

This must be a rhetorical question because Tenzip's point is very clear. Yes.

Quote:

Perhaps, spill over glue here and there. Chips and dents on the metal casing of headphones, perhaps. Such defects are very rarely present at any retail store. There aren't many ways mess up a headphone, and customers have loyally given Grado infinite leeway. Short of putting a sledge hammer to the product, idolizing customers will be happy.

In this paragraph, the arguments become even more interesting. And confusing. What does this statement have to do with your point: "Such defects are very rarely present at any retail store"? Are you saying that Grado phones don't belong next to the mass-produced 'phones sold in retail stores? It yes, then I'd agree. But for far different reasons.

Also, re "defects," is it conceivable that there are many Grado fans who don't see the so-called defects as critical to the performance of the Grados? They love their Grados and aren't bothered by the "defects." In fact, they may consider the "defects" endearing. I own GS1K #1376, and the SN is etched by hand in the mahogany housings. The handwritten SN on the box bottom and inside cover is #1378. They got the box mixed up (and maybe the person who owns the #1376 box would be willing to swap with me) but is it a defect? Not in my eyes.

Quote:

Is it too much to ask for good workmanship?

Absolutely not! But I'm referring to "good workmanship" in terms of performance -- SQ -- and not superficial appearance. You're right, my GS1K doesn't look like the shiny plastic toy 'phones in retails stores. But they sound awfully good, and I wouldn't trade them for container loads of the toys.