[MD1032]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rhythmdevils /img/forum/go_quote.gif more than the content of the photographs, i think the biggest difference between the two is that the Sennheiser pictures are advertisements, made by a professional photographer, to create a specific image that Sennheiser wants. The grado pictures are just some dude with a camera. I'm sure if they wanted, they could make pictures just like the Sennheiser ones. I mean god knows what the pro photographer just barely cropped out of the frame in the Sennheiser pictures, or wasn't photographed at all, to which the dude with camera in the grado lab used no discretion. Just an idea. Keep fighting now...

Why didn't anyone else realize this?

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenzip /img/forum/go_quote.gif I find it quite amusing that people judge the quality of the product by the environment it was made in.

I think this is what it all boils down to. Grado products sound the best to me, and are capable of putting a smile on my face and making any day better, and inducing eargasmic listening sessions. I really don't care how they were made, or what they are made of, I just know how much happiness they've brought me. I don't understand why defendants of other manufacturers feel the need to attack Grado so bitterly. If they're happy with their headphones, and we're happy with ours, why are these people so angry?

I hate to break it to you, people, but some of the best music comes from old, ugly musicians playing really old, beat-up instruments with their laquer stripped off. It's not glamorous, but it's probably what's behind your favorite recording. If some people saw some of the shops and factories some of the best instruments in the world are made in, I'm sure they'd look very much like Grado's.

 

[salannelson]

Ah! The source of Grado's quality control problems!

 

[aristos_achaion]

Quote:

Originally Posted by spaceconvoy /img/forum/go_quote.gif He basically told the other guy to shut up and stop complaining, after he mentioned there was a fingerprint on his headphone, which wasn't a complain, just an observation. Do you know what ad hominem means? I was attacking his response, not the man himself (per se ). Also, your logic is twisted. Just because you keep a product doesn't mean you have to love everything about it and never metion it's faults - that's fanboy logic.

Ah...I believe I'd misinterpreted you before. Here's how I'd interpreted your response:

his response is a fanboy response => his response is invalid because he's a fanboy

Taking it like that (calling him a fanboy, thus invalidating his response), it could be interpreted as an ad hominem. You, however, were trying to say that his response seemed typical of a fanboy, possibly in an attempt to raise the level of discourse on this thread. That, I see, is not ad hominem.

Also, that's not so much my logic, per se, as trying to reexamine the logic of his argument (which you did kind of dismiss)...while I don't see any reason you can't examine the faults of something you buy, there is a mindset that says, if you fail to take corrective actions on a problem, you shouldn't complain about it. My mom's like that...drives me up the wall.

 

[Robin W.]

I can't help but find these threads amusing.
I won't take sides because I fit somewhere in between.
I work in a garage and a basement, so by the standards set out here I'm somewhere lower than grado. I'm fine with that. To me it sounds like a something to prove wrong.
I am the the only worker, design/manufacturing/customer support/take out the garbage. I don't think anyone can judge a product, or company without knowing the people behind that company.

I don't defend Grado on the QC issues that have been brought to light. I do however have MS1's and HF-2's on order regardless of the mistake. They should be selling these scratched/imperfect versions as "B" stock like many other companies do. They should never pass final QC and go out as normal stock, even if they sell for $10-20 less the normal version the defect is known and they are upfront about the issue.

I can say that people have no right stereotyping the appearance of the Grado factory as the sole reason there are imperfections in some products. That is in the hands of a person not a machine. Final QC (if there is no person in that roll) should be placed on somebody with an eye for detail and pride in the product, the shipper/packager etc.

I think it's fair to say Grado has been around long enough to fix these problems, but I don't believe it has anything to do with the older machines these items are produced on.
There are many vintage products that are built as well or better than what is produced today. They weren't built on Senn's fancy assembly line, they were built on manual milling machines/lathes etc.

My view on this thread is support Grado if you like their product/sound, but do everything it takes to bring to light defects in the items you buy if they are not up to resonable expectations of the product.
If you buy something and just complain to people on here about the nicks on your RS-1i's then Grado will never know the problem.

Like many people have said before, it's the customer who has the power to tell Grado that their QC may not be up to par. Don't settle with products that are below resonable expectations. Send them back for replacement, instead of bad mouthing Grado on a forum that they clearly support.

Please don't quote me as saying you are "not allowed" to say something bad about Grado, I am saying that shouldn't be your only action. Send the product back, get the problem resolved. Let other people know of your issue in an adult like manor, I would hope all of us on this forum are capable of that. But from this and many threads like it I have my doubts.

I personally do what I do because I love it, I get the feeling from what I've heard about John Grado that he loves what he does and how his company does it. If he was simply a business man that only cared about money, I think we would see all Grado's being made overseas. From a cost point of view I can see why the igrado is made overseas, and I don't think that has ever been "top secret". But there has to be something that stops him from making everything overseas, my guess (please see the word guess, my shot in the dark based on zero facts) would be the people that work for him are more than employees, they are friends/family/real people.

I own Grado's/Senns/AKG's and I think all of these companies bring something wonderful to our community, along with so many other companies that I've never owned or heard.

There's obviously alot of people in this thread that think Grado should improve QC, well why don't we do something about it?? In a calm constructive manor that means something to Grado, and the people saying it. No bashing, no insults, no unsupported ranting.

Step 1, what is the problem(s)?
the common things I've heard are:
nicks, scratches.
glue

Step 2, as a community we probably come from a broad range of industry.
how are nicks and scratches avoided in your industry? I often use a 3M protective film over metal parts to protect them during fabrication. How about something simpler. re-usable "socks" from the time the cap (metal/wood/plastic) goes into production and into the worn cardboard boxes have it protected by something that doesn't come off untill the product is ready to ship.

Step 3, you guys give your ideas. There appear to be alot of smart people here, if it's worth your time to complain about Grado QC, why not re-direct that effort to helping a company that just might not know better on how to get better.

Step 4, (optional, and I hope everyone chooses to skip this step) Insult me for even suggesting that it could be us that might try to suggest ways Grado could be a better company.

Just my thoughts, from someone who would rather make the world a better place then complain about how bad the world is.
Robin

 

[feifan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwaudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't help but find these threads amusing. I won't take sides because I fit somewhere in between. I work in a garage and a basement, so by the standards set out here I'm somewhere lower than grado. I'm fine with that. To me it sounds like a something to prove wrong. I am the the only worker, design/manufacturing/customer support/take out the garbage. I don't think anyone can judge a product, or company without knowing the people behind that company. I don't defend Grado on the QC issues that have been brought to light. I do however have MS1's and HF-2's on order regardless of the mistake. They should be selling these scratched/imperfect versions as "B" stock like many other companies do. They should never pass final QC and go out as normal stock, even if they sell for $10-20 less the normal version the defect is known and they are upfront about the issue. I can say that people have no right stereotyping the appearance of the Grado factory as the sole reason there are imperfections in some products. That is in the hands of a person not a machine. Final QC (if there is no person in that roll) should be placed on somebody with an eye for detail and pride in the product, the shipper/packager etc. I think it's fair to say Grado has been around long enough to fix these problems, but I don't believe it has anything to do with the older machines these items are produced on. There are many vintage products that are built as well or better than what is produced today. They weren't built on Senn's fancy assembly line, they were built on manual milling machines/lathes etc. My view on this thread is support Grado if you like their product/sound, but do everything it takes to bring to light defects in the items you buy if they are not up to resonable expectations of the product. If you buy something and just complain to people on here about the nicks on your RS-1i's then Grado will never know the problem. Like many people have said before, it's the customer who has the power to tell Grado that their QC may not be up to par. Don't settle with products that are below resonable expectations. Send them back for replacement, instead of bad mouthing Grado on a forum that they clearly support. Please don't quote me as saying you are "not allowed" to say something bad about Grado, I am saying that shouldn't be your only action. Send the product back, get the problem resolved. Let other people know of your issue in an adult like manor, I would hope all of us on this forum are capable of that. But from this and many threads like it I have my doubts. I personally do what I do because I love it, I get the feeling from what I've heard about John Grado that he loves what he does and how his company does it. If he was simply a business man that only cared about money, I think we would see all Grado's being made overseas. From a cost point of view I can see why the igrado is made overseas, and I don't think that has ever been "top secret". But there has to be something that stops him from making everything overseas, my guess (please see the word guess, my shot in the dark based on zero facts) would be the people that work for him are more than employees, they are friends/family/real people. I own Grado's/Senns/AKG's and I think all of these companies bring something wonderful to our community, along with so many other companies that I've never owned or heard. There's obviously alot of people in this thread that think Grado should improve QC, well why don't we do something about it?? In a calm constructive manor that means something to Grado, and the people saying it. No bashing, no insults, no unsupported ranting. Step 1, what is the problem(s)? the common things I've heard are: nicks, scratches. glue Step 2, as a community we probably come from a broad range of industry. how are nicks and scratches avoided in your industry? I often use a 3M protective film over metal parts to protect them during fabrication. How about something simpler. re-usable "socks" from the time the cap (metal/wood/plastic) goes into production and into the worn cardboard boxes have it protected by something that doesn't come off untill the product is ready to ship. Step 3, you guys give your ideas. There appear to be alot of smart people here, if it's worth your time to complain about Grado QC, why not re-direct that effort to helping a company that just might not know better on how to get better. Step 4, (optional, and I hope everyone chooses to skip this step) Insult me for even suggesting that it could be us that might try to suggest ways Grado could be a better company. Just my thoughts, from someone who would rather make the world a better place then complain about how bad the world is. Robin

Enlightening and exceptionally well written. Thanks, Robin, for a comment that's grounded in reality and a perception that sheds light on the issue.

 

[John Willett]

Quote:

Originally Posted by rwaudio /img/forum/go_quote.gif I can't help but find these threads amusing. I won't take sides because I fit somewhere in between. I work in a garage and a basement, so by the standards set out here I'm somewhere lower than grado. I'm fine with that. To me it sounds like a something to prove wrong. I am the the only worker, design/manufacturing/customer support/take out the garbage. I don't think anyone can judge a product, or company without knowing the people behind that company. I don't defend Grado on the QC issues that have been brought to light. I do however have MS1's and HF-2's on order regardless of the mistake. They should be selling these scratched/imperfect versions as "B" stock like many other companies do. They should never pass final QC and go out as normal stock, even if they sell for $10-20 less the normal version the defect is known and they are upfront about the issue. I can say that people have no right stereotyping the appearance of the Grado factory as the sole reason there are imperfections in some products. That is in the hands of a person not a machine. Final QC (if there is no person in that roll) should be placed on somebody with an eye for detail and pride in the product, the shipper/packager etc. I think it's fair to say Grado has been around long enough to fix these problems, but I don't believe it has anything to do with the older machines these items are produced on. There are many vintage products that are built as well or better than what is produced today. They weren't built on Senn's fancy assembly line, they were built on manual milling machines/lathes etc. My view on this thread is support Grado if you like their product/sound, but do everything it takes to bring to light defects in the items you buy if they are not up to resonable expectations of the product. If you buy something and just complain to people on here about the nicks on your RS-1i's then Grado will never know the problem. Like many people have said before, it's the customer who has the power to tell Grado that their QC may not be up to par. Don't settle with products that are below resonable expectations. Send them back for replacement, instead of bad mouthing Grado on a forum that they clearly support. Please don't quote me as saying you are "not allowed" to say something bad about Grado, I am saying that shouldn't be your only action. Send the product back, get the problem resolved. Let other people know of your issue in an adult like manor, I would hope all of us on this forum are capable of that. But from this and many threads like it I have my doubts. I personally do what I do because I love it, I get the feeling from what I've heard about John Grado that he loves what he does and how his company does it. If he was simply a business man that only cared about money, I think we would see all Grado's being made overseas. From a cost point of view I can see why the igrado is made overseas, and I don't think that has ever been "top secret". But there has to be something that stops him from making everything overseas, my guess (please see the word guess, my shot in the dark based on zero facts) would be the people that work for him are more than employees, they are friends/family/real people. I own Grado's/Senns/AKG's and I think all of these companies bring something wonderful to our community, along with so many other companies that I've never owned or heard. There's obviously alot of people in this thread that think Grado should improve QC, well why don't we do something about it?? In a calm constructive manor that means something to Grado, and the people saying it. No bashing, no insults, no unsupported ranting. Step 1, what is the problem(s)? the common things I've heard are: nicks, scratches. glue Step 2, as a community we probably come from a broad range of industry. how are nicks and scratches avoided in your industry? I often use a 3M protective film over metal parts to protect them during fabrication. How about something simpler. re-usable "socks" from the time the cap (metal/wood/plastic) goes into production and into the worn cardboard boxes have it protected by something that doesn't come off untill the product is ready to ship. Step 3, you guys give your ideas. There appear to be alot of smart people here, if it's worth your time to complain about Grado QC, why not re-direct that effort to helping a company that just might not know better on how to get better. Step 4, (optional, and I hope everyone chooses to skip this step) Insult me for even suggesting that it could be us that might try to suggest ways Grado could be a better company. Just my thoughts, from someone who would rather make the world a better place then complain about how bad the world is. Robin

Thanks Robin - the perfect reply.

I do find that people tend to moan on forums and not talk to the manufacturer or their official agents - if you don't talk to the manufacturer, they won't know about the problem and cannot fix it.

 

[Aynjell]

Quote:

Originally Posted by iriverdude /img/forum/go_quote.gif You should buy Bose then, they spend millions on R&D (probably Bose term for suing other audio companies) Why should he buy new equipment? What's wrong with a 50 year old lathe for the wood cups? Fred Dibnah made stuff on lathes, powered by steam engines. I really have to wonder if the people complaining are kiddies.

Nothing wrong with those machines. I used to work at a machine shop with some customers that'd scare you if you knew me... and knew I worked on their parts.

But I worked on machines from early 1900's on a regular basis because they were good machines.

Let me put a ex-machinist's comment into this discussion because it'll shut a lot of the whiners up:

You buy grado because they make old school style headphones, right? Well, they still make them so that SOMEBODY still makes them like they used to and they're good at it. Guess what? Same goes for machining equipment, and that's a proven fact since EVERY machining shop still uses some form of primitive belt driven turret lathe.

The box thing was bad, yes. They should have had more parts pride and at least bagged each one up to avoid any kind of dust coating etc... they used to say there... every part, metal plastic, etc... is more fragile than an egg.

But that's the difference between me and some of the others complaining. I've been there and done that and see nothing wrong with how they do it, providing they come up with a good product.

I am however disgusted that their overpriced amplifier is nothing but a CMOY... and a guy at a local store tried to sell it to me. Glad I just can't stand the look of grado products.

 

[Aynjell]

ALSO, something I want to add regarding the boxes... you don't know if those aren't non-conforming parts (not being sold).