[pete99]

Like many before me, possibly, I'm going round in circles thinking about a possible headphone upgrade!
 
Currently I have Sony MDR V6's and I listen exclusively to a (wonderful) Cowon S9 and a VBR around 200kbps. I have no plans to change my player or (probably) the bit rate I rip at, which I accept rules out some headphones.
 
The Cowon has a great range of EQs and tweaks to make them sound good and I always use them on my Sonys.
 
I like the Sonys a lot (versus the Porta Pros which came before) but think maybe spending a bit more will get me a noticeable step up in quality.  My research to date has narrowed it down to Audio Technica M50s versus AD700s.
 
The rationale is:

1. I want a low impedance phone so I get decent volume from my Cowon.  (I don't want to get a headphone amp and in any case the Cowon doesn't have line out / has a decent output power from the headphone socket).  This rules out some options.
2. I'm attracted to open backed but am wary of lack of bass.  I'm not a 'bass head' but the music I listen to is mainly rock / pop rather than classical.  Clear bass is acceptable - it doesn't have to burst my ear drums!  I like the idea of a 'wide sound stage' that open backed phones appear to provide.
3. I am 52 so presumably my ears have deteriorated with age.  Maybe 'bright' sounding to a 30-something will sound balanced to me?

 
The M50 seems to get only positive reviews whereas the AD700 gets more varied - mainly around the perceived lack of bass.  I like the wider sound stage idea from open-backed phones but not if it makes the music sound recessive (which some, albeit a minority of reviews say).
 
The AD700 would be a bigger change from the MDR V6 in terms of the nature of the sounds but seems more of a risk due to possible lack of bass.  Would the M50 sound too similar to the MDR V6's?  How much of a step up would the M50 be from the MDR V6?
 
Your advice and experiences of these headphones, especially versus the benchmark of the MDR V6's would be really helpful!  Thanks.
 
Pete

 

[JayB18]

While the bass on the AD700 can be considered weak the bass on the M50 can be considered to be overwhelming. They also have a somewhat recessed midrange and virtually no soundstage (though the same is true of most closed cans.)  However the soundstage of the AD700 can make some music sound a bit distant or laid back at times.   I guess you need to decide what compromises your willing to make. Ive seen quite a few negative opinions of the M50 on other websites and forums (headphones.com.au). They are consistently liked here however.

 

[Kevin Brown]

I also think the bass of the M50's is a little on the heavy side.  The bass and mids are recessed on the AD700's, but they are not a bright headphone, though.  Hard to explain.  I think you'd really have to listen to them to decide.  I could also suggest the SR80i's.  I like those more than both the M50's and the AD700's.  Although I do have the AD900's and I like those a lot, which fixes the recessed mids.

 

[pete99]

OP here!
 
I'm persuaded that the Audi Technica ATH AD900 is worth stepping up to!
 
If I say I'm not a bass head but listen mainly to rock will the AD900's be a good choice?  As I said in the original post, I like the idea of the wide sound stage of open phones.  If I get great detail, wide sound stage and a tight, audible but not 'heavy' bass I will be satisfied.
 
Thanks again!
 
Pete

 

[bisayaboi]

Quote:

OP here!
 
I'm persuaded that the Audi Technica ATH AD900 is worth stepping up to!
 
If I say I'm not a bass head but listen mainly to rock will the AD900's be a good choice?  As I said in the original post, I like the idea of the wide sound stage of open phones.  If I get great detail, wide sound stage and a tight, audible but not 'heavy' bass I will be satisfied.
 
Thanks again!
 
Pete

At that price range you might want to look at the Beyerdynamic DT880 or something else. I've read threads around here that the AD900 isn't much of a upgrade from the AD700 and some found it simply different and not necessarily better.
 
Anyways, I was just in that debate few days ago and I ordered the ATH-AD700. I'm a "mids" person, don't really care too much for bass and I like something slightly bright/forward so I choose those over the M50. In my opinion, a more forward/bright headphone will sound better for rock or pop than something with recessed mids or more bass like the M50. I think the AD700 is slightly more of an all-around headphone compared to the M50 as well because I listen to a huge variety of music.
 
That said if my Shure SRH840's get repaired I might sell/trade for an M50.
 
Getting both is a good idea. They both would compliment each other very well. Everyone needs an open and closed can anyway in my opinion.
I'd get both instead of getting an AD900.
 

 

[JayB18]

 
Quote:

OP here!
 
I'm persuaded that the Audi Technica ATH AD900 is worth stepping up to!
 
If I say I'm not a bass head but listen mainly to rock will the AD900's be a good choice?  As I said in the original post, I like the idea of the wide sound stage of open phones.  If I get great detail, wide sound stage and a tight, audible but not 'heavy' bass I will be satisfied.
 
Thanks again!
 
Pete

Id definitely go for an open pair of phones then. AD900 should fit this description. Mids are more forward than AD700 and bass is slightly more impactful and present. The Beyerdynamic DT440 could also be considered if you are worried about bass on the AD900.

 

[Otakusound]

Hey, just a heads up in case you are considering the ad900's jpzero has his up for sale for pretty cheap.
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/513591/fs-audio-technica-ad900-alessandro-ms1i
 
Here are a few of the reviews and comparisons that I found helpful when I was looking at the 900's a year ago.
 
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/418082/ad900-a-subbjective-story-with-a-detailed-review
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/348541/ad900-review
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/271802/audio-technica-ath-ad900-review
http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/257561/review-ath-ad900

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/476881/audio-technica-ad900-review-and-compared-to-hd595

http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/236449/ath-ad900-first-impression

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ad900-impressions-compared-ad700s-417294/

http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f4/ath-ad900-appreciation-thread-420319

 

 

Hope this helps.

 

[Coupe]

Rock on the M50s is absolutely amazing.  I don't know why people claim recessed mids.  IMO the M50s can be a little bright and bring in some bass punch, but the mids are perfectly acceptable.
 
With a pretty varied collection, I do not find the bass on the M50s to be overwhelming.  If you do, you can buy some cloth tape and do the tape mod on the M50s found on this forum.
 
Cloth or soft tape is better.  It seems that more brittle plastic tapes distort the bass.
 
Good luck!

 

[JayB18]

 
Quote:

Rock on the M50s is absolutely amazing.  I don't know why people claim recessed mids.  IMO the M50s can be a little bright and bring in some bass punch, but the mids are perfectly acceptable.
 
With a pretty varied collection, I do not find the bass on the M50s to be overwhelming.  If you do, you can buy some cloth tape and do the tape mod on the M50s found on this forum.
 
Cloth or soft tape is better.  It seems that more brittle plastic tapes distort the bass.
 
Good luck!

The OP seems to be looking for open phones with a wide soundstage without heavy bass. The M50 is the complete opposite.

 

[soundeffect]

Well I think you need to decide how important is bass to you.  The AD700 does have bass, but little impact.  If you are a fan of bass, you might be shock at the amount of bass.  Another thing you might want to consider also is the size of the headphone, the AD700 is huge in my opinion and it is not too much of a looker.
 
I own both and I think they are two totally different headphones.  I recommend the M50, but to be honest it's hard to recommend something that are totally different from each other.  Also, if you have thought about open headphones the only way you will know if you would like them or not is to try them out or otherwise you will always wonder if you do.  I did and I'm not a too big of a fan of them. I think I won't like anyone of them until I reach at least the quality of the senn HD650 where it has more noticeable bass.
 
I can tell you I like everything else about the AD700-comfort, mids, detail, clarity, sound stage, and highs (highs can be a little bit bright though). 
 
I think the key word for the two choice is bass.
 
Just be prepare to know that the bass is not that strong on the AD700 and at the same time the bass on the M50 is stronger than avg.

 

[runswithaliens]

I have the ad700s and I have to EQ them quite a bit to get them to sound half-way decent out of an e-mu 0404usb; and even then they have a certain falseness to the sound. What I mean by that is that a recording of a saxophone might sound a little bit like a kazoo for example. Although the blazing hot and somewhat tinny high frequencies were apparent to me when I first got them I didn't notice the poor tonal quality until I purchased a pair of the similarly priced Fostex T50RP headphones.
 
When it comes to the mids the Fostex headphones just trounce the Audio-Technicas. It is a night and day difference and that is with the Fostex even in stock form. And if you look around on these forums there are people applying some inexpensive DIY mods to the T50RPs that apparently put them at a level that competes with the high-end cans out there. I am waiting on a better amp before I try that myself.
 
The ad700s do have some redeeming qualities though and I still get them out on occasion as a nice contrast to the T50RPs. Paired with a revealing DAC the micro details of the high frequencies really stand out in music. Also once the headband is bent so that the cups sit on your head correctly (may not be necessary depending on your head size) they are very light and fluffy comfortable. . The odd thing though is that especially for watching movies I am more likely to not notice that I am wearing headphones when I have the less comfortable T50RPs on. I believe this is due to the very realistic sounding vocals and other natural sounds that they are able to reproduce. And finally the wide open outside of your head soundstage is also a nice contrast to the sometimes claustrophobic T50RPs. As soon as I get a more powerful amp I am looking at perhaps a pair of the 600 Ohm Beyer dt880s for what I hope would be a comfortable and revealing headphone with a good soundstage but with better over-all tonal qualities than the AD700 (based on what I've read anyway).
 

 

[bisayaboi]

Quote:

I have the ad700s and I have to EQ them quite a bit to get them to sound half-way decent out of an e-mu 0404usb; and even then they have a certain falseness to the sound. What I mean by that is that a recording of a saxophone might sound a little bit like a kazoo for example. Although the blazing hot and somewhat tinny high frequencies were apparent to me when I first got them I didn't notice the poor tonal quality until I purchased a pair of the similarly priced Fostex T50RP headphones.
 
When it comes to the mids the Fostex headphones just trounce the Audio-Technicas. It is a night and day difference and that is with the Fostex even in stock form. And if you look around on these forums there are people applying some inexpensive DIY mods to the T50RPs that apparently put them at a level that competes with the high-end cans out there. I am waiting on a better amp before I try that myself.
 
The ad700s do have some redeeming qualities though and I still get them out on occasion as a nice contrast to the T50RPs. Paired with a revealing DAC the micro details of the high frequencies really stand out in music. Also once the headband is bent so that the cups sit on your head correctly (may not be necessary depending on your head size) they are very light and fluffy comfortable. . The odd thing though is that especially for watching movies I am more likely to not notice that I am wearing headphones when I have the less comfortable T50RPs on. I believe this is due to the very realistic sounding vocals and other natural sounds that they are able to reproduce. And finally the wide open outside of your head soundstage is also a nice contrast to the sometimes claustrophobic T50RPs. As soon as I get a more powerful amp I am looking at perhaps a pair of the 600 Ohm Beyer dt880s for what I hope would be a comfortable and revealing headphone with a good soundstage but with better over-all tonal qualities than the AD700 (based on what I've read anyway).
 

I've looked up on those.. some owners later on said they actually didn't sound that great and only modding really makes it great.
 
@jayB18 You're right.
 
OP I sincerely suggest you get the AD700 first.
 
If you're budget is $200+ you might want to look at the DT880 or K701.

 

[pete99]

Hi,  OP here again!
 
Many thanks for all the helpful replies.  My last thought / question.  There is much positivity about AD700, AD900, DT880.  The negatives are mainly around the bass and (for AD700/AD900 fit for some head sizes).  (Note to self: must measure head circumference!)
 
The information which would help me best evaluate the bass issue is this: how will AD700/900 sound in this respect compared to Sony MDR V6 which I currently listen to?  Direct comparisons on SQ with the Sony would be most helpful, (or is the Sony playing in a lower league?)
 
Thank again!
 
Pete

 

[JayB18]

Quote:

Hi,  OP here again!
 
Many thanks for all the helpful replies.  My last thought / question.  There is much positivity about AD700, AD900, DT880.  The negatives are mainly around the bass and (for AD700/AD900 fit for some head sizes).  (Note to self: must measure head circumference!)
 
The information which would help me best evaluate the bass issue is this: how will AD700/900 sound in this respect compared to Sony MDR V6 which I currently listen to?  Direct comparisons on SQ with the Sony would be most helpful, (or is the Sony playing in a lower league?)
 
Thank again!
 
Pete

Overall sound quality will be superior.  Bass will have less quantity and impact.

 

[bisayaboi]

Quote:

Hi,  OP here again!
 
Many thanks for all the helpful replies.  My last thought / question.  There is much positivity about AD700, AD900, DT880.  The negatives are mainly around the bass and (for AD700/AD900 fit for some head sizes).  (Note to self: must measure head circumference!)
 
The information which would help me best evaluate the bass issue is this: how will AD700/900 sound in this respect compared to Sony MDR V6 which I currently listen to?  Direct comparisons on SQ with the Sony would be most helpful, (or is the Sony playing in a lower league?)
 
Thank again!
 
Pete

If your budget is $150 get the AD700. If your budget is $200+ get the DT880 and you might want to look at the 600ohm version if you have an amp or plan to get an amp in the future.
 
Honestly, I'm extremely tolerant of less bass than usual. Only the RE0 (iem) I thought was a bit bass light. The AD700 should have enough bass to satisfy you if you're not a basshead.
 
I should be getting them Wed/Thursday. I can tell you my impressions if you'd like.