Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[clerkpalmer]

Deep breaths, in goes the good air, out goes the bad air....

OK, every TWS due to the form factor and design is a series of choices and compromises.

For Noble, they want 5 drivers, so their shell needed to be wider or thicker, or to use a stem to off load stuff from the shell. But their fan base likes an IEM style shape, not a stem style. So they opted for a thicker shell that may fit XX% of people's ears. End result is a small percentage of people are unhappy with the fit. But the majority of the fanbase love the sound, looks and design enough that the over all product is a success or... if they did make a mistake in their calculations and design it will affect their sales and they will go back to the drawing board.

Does Noble need to air this out in the head-fi forums if there was issue? For a big issue such as true fatal flaw like what happens to cars, probably, but not here aside from maybe a post to an official announcement and remediation process.

For smaller issues or a small percentage of people having an issue very likely NOT here or at an official level as they let reviewers and sites like head-fi inform people about the pros and cons of their product. This is not gas lighting, it is common business practice. If Ford makes a car that gets 45 miles to the gallon but isn't comfortable for men over 6 foot 2, they are not going to sit and harp on that fact. They are going to talk about it's gas mileage. Similarly Noble is just wanting to focus on what makes their product great versus focusing on what is an issue for some people.

There's not a product on the planet that cannot be improved. I don't understand why it's so hard to acknowledge the issue and say its something we are aware of and working on but there are limits. Also how do you know it's a small percentage? It seems like more people here than not have said they don't fit very well. Acceptable? Sure. Well? No. Horrendous? No. Room for improvement - absolutely.

Edit - the Aviot have 5 drivers right? Haven't seen a similar level of complaints over that model fit wise.

Here are some reviews from Bloom Audio:

"I love the audio quality of the Rex5's but the fit is a struggle. I will be trying to find ear tips that fit from Sedna or something else. Will I keep them or trade them for a wired pair is still up in the air"

And another one

"The Rex5 sound vibrant and bright, although lacks slightly in warmth, personally. The main issue i have with these earbuds is that they fit absolutely awful. In addition, the earcups they come with are extremely thin and do not provide any comfort or ability to contain sound."

 

[FullCircle]

There's not a product on the planet that cannot be improved. I don't understand why it's so hard to acknowledge the issue and say its something we are aware of and working on but there are limits. Also how do you know it's a small percentage? It seems like more people here than not have said they don't fit very well. Acceptable? Sure. Well? No. Horrendous? No. Room for improvement - absolutely.

Edit - the Aviot have 5 drivers right? Haven't seen a similar level of complaints over that model fit wise.

Here are some reviews from Bloom Audio:

"I love the audio quality of the Rex5's but the fit is a struggle. I will be trying to find ear tips that fit from Sedna or something else. Will I keep them or trade them for a wired pair is still up in the air"

And another one

"The Rex5 sound vibrant and bright, although lacks slightly in warmth, personally. The main issue i have with these earbuds is that they fit absolutely awful. In addition, the earcups they come with are extremely thin and do not provide any comfort or ability to contain sound."

"Ear cups"

If anything

I'm pondering on CIEM TWS

 

[dweaver]

All companies aim to improve I think. They just rarely discuss it when talking about their latest product release while they are in full sales mode.

We see what they are selling today. Behind closed doors they likely are planning the next 2 or 3 releases of future products while analyzing and reviewing the sales data and customer and reviewer comments of their current line up. All of that is confidential and literally their business.

I just bought the JBL Tour Pro 3. It makes you sacrifice volume controls if you want ambient controls. This is an issue JBL has had for years. People repeat over and over, that they should fix that. Never once have I seen them apologize and acknowledge their design decision. People just accept it or simply don't buy JBL. Now if at some point a sales indicator tell them they have to address the design decision, they may change their mind. This same product also has comments made by reviewers and forum users about how big they are. Again JBL does not acknowledge or apologize for the design decision. They let other reviewers and pass on information about their products instead.

So in my case I weighed the JBL pros and cons (still weighing even before they arrive) and hope like hell I made the right decision. Otherwise I will have another product I will have buyer remorse about...

BTW if I don't like the new JBL it's likely my last unless they improve... because I do vote with my wallet... this is our right as the consumer, and I do think companies ultimately have to listen to that or perish.

For example I refused to buy the Momentum 4 TWS because v1 and v3 both had faults that I felt were unacceptable given the price. If that keeps happening they have already been sold once to a new company, and it might just happen again.

 

[galaxygrrl]

Hee-hee… Amazon said I could keep the AZ100s.

I probably won’t use them. And my shiny new TV doesn’t play well with my 15-year-old Sonos Playbar (surprise, surprise). So… I’m flipping the AZ100s to help fund a Sonos Arc Ultra.

TWS out, home theater upgrade in.

Thank you, Amazon logistics gods—you’ve (accidentally) blessed my living room. (Yes, I'm buying the Sonos speaker on Amazon.

 

[Saraugie]

5 Driver TWS: ZX1 is more comfortable and has better ANC than the Rex5. Returned the Rex and am happy for now with the ZX1.

I posted a picture with both ^^ plus others here @ Rex's intro date. IIRC the Noble was the biggest.

 

[GreatGeorge]

There's not a product on the planet that cannot be improved. I don't understand why it's so hard to acknowledge the issue and say its something we are aware of and working on but there are limits. Also how do you know it's a small percentage? It seems like more people here than not have said they don't fit very well. Acceptable? Sure. Well? No. Horrendous? No. Room for improvement - absolutely.

Edit - the Aviot have 5 drivers right? Haven't seen a similar level of complaints over that model fit wise.

Here are some reviews from Bloom Audio:

"I love the audio quality of the Rex5's but the fit is a struggle. I will be trying to find ear tips that fit from Sedna or something else. Will I keep them or trade them for a wired pair is still up in the air"

And another one

"The Rex5 sound vibrant and bright, although lacks slightly in warmth, personally. The main issue i have with these earbuds is that they fit absolutely awful. In addition, the earcups they come with are extremely thin and do not provide any comfort or ability to contain sound."

It's funny, but I used to have the REX 5, and they fit me perfectly — the fit was actually more comfortable than the Aviot ZX1. In the end, the ZX1 became my main pair, but I still remember being surprised at how Noble managed to design such an ergonomic shell and fit everything inside

 

[SynaestheticA]

I mean at this point it's getting close to gas lighting. Not sure why you can't acknowledge what a lot of us have been saying for a long time. I've probably tried 200 tws over the years. Id like to think I'm qualified to comment on fit.

Are you being gaslit? Do you really need a business owner on a forum to acknowledge your own fit issues to believe you have them?

He is just saying he isn't going to make a design and business decision based off (maybe) 10 forum users, the same people who nitpick absolutely every aspect of a product.

I've seen people here return a product because the ANC isn't as good as Bose, because they're incensed by the need to try a 3rd party tip, because a case lid is flimsy and because battery life drained 10% more on one side than the other.

Maybe we need a reality check? We're pretty crappy customers who return 80% of what we buy due to lax Amazon return policies.

 

[GreatGeorge]

5 Driver TWS: ZX1 is more comfortable and has better ANC than the Rex5. Returned the Rex and am happy for now with the ZX1.

I posted a picture with both ^^ plus others here @ Rex's intro date. IIRC the Noble was the biggest.

Pretty sure the ANC is kinda meh on both. If ANC matters to you, you're better off with Sony or Bose. I think the REX5 and ZX1 focus more on sound quality than on features like ANC

 

[FullCircle]

It's funny, but I used to have the REX 5, and they fit me perfectly — the fit was actually more comfortable than the Aviot ZX1. In the end, the ZX1 became my main pair, but I still remember being surprised at how Noble managed to design such an ergonomic shell and fit everything inside

 

[GreatGeorge]

Are you being gaslit? Do you really need a business owner on a forum to acknowledge your own fit issues to believe you have them?

He is just saying he isn't going to make a design and business decision based off (maybe) 10 forum users, the same people who nitpick absolutely every aspect of a product.

I've seen people here return a product because the ANC isn't as good as Bose, because they're incensed by the need to try a 3rd party tip, because a case lid is flimsy and because battery life drained 10% more on one side than the other.

Maybe we need a reality check? We're pretty crappy customers who return 80% of what we buy due to lax Amazon return policies.

I returned them because LDAC at 990 kbps didn’t work, and that really disappointed me — especially considering the price. Later, I also found out there’s no water resistance at all, I didn’t like how the case was made, I’m not a fan of the color, and overall the build just didn’t justify the cost. Their sound quality alone puts them in the top tier, no doubt

 

[FullCircle]

I returned them because LDAC at 990 kbps didn’t work, and that really disappointed me — especially considering the price. Later, I also found out there’s no water resistance at all

there is no rating, but we do have people using them at the gym, tread mills and such. Also, our largest market is Asia, in some of the most humid environments one can find. That being said, I don't use them in situations where they could be exposed a direct shot of water. If you examine the housings you will see a vent near the ear canal area. Those vents are necessary for tuning. But as they are designed for air flow, moisture can also ingress into the ports.

I didn’t like how the case was made

I wanted a display screen on the case, turns out Qualcom didn't cooperate with that.

I’m not a fan of the color, and overall the build just didn’t justify the cost.

Not the first time Ive heard that. (Noted)

That said, in terms of sound quality, they’re some of the best earbuds out there

 

[Jhericurls]

I'll start by saying that I don't know about other Noble products, but the problem with the Rex5 is that they don't fit perfectly to everyone's ears. In my opinion, it's not normal to have to rely on third-party eartips. I've personally tried a lot of them, spending a lot of money. I haven't found the perfect ones yet. The last ones were the Acoustune Aex70, which I was deeply disappointed by. They deform very easily and the audio output is insufficient. I went back to the Azla Origins, which offer very good audio output, even if they don't allow the earphones to be inserted perfectly into the ears. Noble should offer eartips that fit the Rex5 as much as possible, given that they produce them.

I can relate, the Rex 5 does sound good, best I've heard but I still had to let them go, for two reasons.

The earbuds feel comfortable when I'm stationary, but the moment I move, they gradually slip out of my ears. I tried numerous tips but nothing worked—meaning I could only use them in limited scenarios.

Then there’s the cost, which ties back to the first issue. They’re expensive, and if I can’t use them to their full potential, the price is hard to justify—especially considering they’ll eventually become e-waste once the battery dies.

It made me realise I was ok to compromise a slight dip in sound quality for convenience.

 

[athrpvl]

The fact is that Legend 6 have six drivers and for me they are more comfortable and kinda «close-to-skin» fit for earpiece internal surface (so I don’t need ANC because passive isolation with proper tips (W1, SpiralDots 12) is more than enough in extreme conditions like Moscow subway, high traffic roads, etc). That was one of a factors to buy against Rex 5. Even Svanar TWS that I used almost a half of the year which is huge size have also the same perfect fit with highly engineered inner surface.

The good example of customer loyalty engineering was with BlackBerry physical keyboard long time ago — they collect opinions from real focus groups like 10 000 people and made a shape of each key perfectly usable for almost everyone.

 

[pgravili]

I can relate, the Rex 5 does sound good, best I've heard but I still had to let them go, for two reasons.

The earbuds feel comfortable when I'm stationary, but the moment I move, they gradually slip out of my ears. I tried numerous tips but nothing worked—meaning I could only use them in limited scenarios.

Then there’s the cost, which ties back to the first issue. They’re expensive, and if I can’t use them to their full potential, the price is hard to justify—especially considering they’ll eventually become e-waste once the battery dies.

It made me realise I was ok to compromise a slight dip in sound quality for convenience.

It's a real shame. Also because the audio quality is unquestionable. The use of Audiodo is unique. Noble should guarantee that the original eartips are sufficient. I'm waiting for the Penon Liqueur to arrive. But I repeat this is not normal.

 

[fidgeraldo]

Noble should guarantee that the original eartips are sufficient.

Or this.
Some buds or IEMs are entirely independent of the tip choice. You just pick one and it's perfect.
You can move them in your ear canal and it just plays wonderfully
And some buds or IEMs, it's a pain to find the right one.

I love when I can just use stock tips or when earphones don't require an expedition to find the right one; you can pick and play whichever.
Perhaps manufacturers should aim to build earphones that are not so dependent on the choice of the tips.

Cheers!