Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[FullCircle]

John, I get what your saying. But, if you have sold as many as you say, don't you find it strange that the fit issues only occured in this tiny cross section of the world? The outliers all ended up on one thread on Head-Fi.

The Rex5 sound great and I would say if there is any outlier group, it would be the people that don't agree that the sound is great.

We have 2 posts almost back to back

1) post says the fokus line up fits him, but the rex5 not so much

2) post says the Rex 5 fits but the foKus line, not so much

That alone shows that people's ears are different and results will vary.

 

[subguy812]

We have 2 posts almost back to back

1) post says the fokus line up fits him, but the rex5 not so much

2) post says the Rex 5 fits but the foKus line, not so much

That alone shows thay people's ears are different and results will vary.

The rabbit hole with all of the third party ear tip swaps is finding the same level of sound quality once you find a tip that seals, is comfortable and prevents slippage.

It has been stated ad naseum, that ears are like fingerprints.

 

[dweaver]

So my helium voice should be fine!!!

First world challenges... waiting impatiently for the JBL Tour Pro 3 to arrive... HOW DARE they use UPS and not just have them a day away from ME!!! Lol.

So of course obsessive reading and review listening ad nauseum as I wait. I watched the DHRME review and the difference in experience between the 2 reviewers while doing the mic tests were insane. The one guys was just horrible and the other guy was top tier. I think my voice is higher pitched as I hate hearing my own voice thus my helium comment. Sure as hell hope so, I will be severely unhappy if they work like that ones guys experience. I am tempted to send them back and not even give them a try. But I am really curious on their hybrid drive configuration.

Sure hope that my helium voice is in for the win...

 

[galaxygrrl]

I read through the back and forth with John and couldn’t help but appreciate that a busy CEO actually takes the time to show up here and engage. Let’s be honest—no other CEOs and product managers are doing that. Most just lurk in the background but John jumps into the fray, even when it gets a little bumpy. And clearly, he gets benefits from doing so, but we benefit too.

What really stuck with me was a video interview I saw, where he discussed the industry, his business, his background, and his products. He also mentioned that Noble actually grew out of Head-Fi. At the end of the day, John’s just an audiophile like the rest of us, who turned his passion into a company.

Sure, he takes more heat than most of us ever will—but that’s part of life on the forums. The fact that he still shows up, joins the conversation, and keeps it interesting.

 

[clerkpalmer]

We have 2 posts almost back to back

1) post says the fokus line up fits him, but the rex5 not so much

2) post says the Rex 5 fits but the foKus line, not so much

That alone shows that people's ears are different and results will vary.

I'm a big fan but I think you are being a little defensive here. I do think the feedback here is sufficient to conclude that the Rex 5 and prior Noble TWS have fit issues. Yes its a small sample size but I think I've seen enough to conclude that's is a fairly widespread issue. You might at least acknowledge the feedback and indicate whether you're looking into it rather than denying it. I could see you reaching several conclusions one of which may be to ignore it which may be a rational business decision but I think denying there is some level of issue is a little tone deaf. This has been somewhat of a consistent theme since the very first Noble TWS. I'm also not entirely sure this is something that would surface in a YouTube review. In my experience the problem isn't immediately apparent particularly when to Nobles credit the sound is so damn good.

 

[Not so fat head]

Just an fyi, most audiophiles end up penniless, homeless and in the streets.
From a drawer full of TWS to a brown bag of hooch and a 60 minutes documentary

 

[galaxygrrl]

Just an fyi, most audiophiles end up penniless, homeless and in the streets.
From a drawer full of TWS to a brown bag of hooch and a 60 minutes documentary

Haha, That is what I thought when I saw this contest.https://www.head-fi.org/threads/ifi-audio-asks-gotta-lotta-iems.977026/

 

[clerkpalmer]

Ofcourse they don't fit "perfectly to everyone's ears."

I'm sure there is data on this and I'm sure it's readily available. Of course no tws fits everyone's ears but it is also true that some models fit more peoles ears than others. For example one TWS may fit 85 percent of ears and another may fit 70 percent. The difference could be meaningful or not to a company. Some might choose to improve it to get it to 85 or even higher. Some may decide 70 is enough. There is consistent feedback here on headfi about this. I'm a little surprised you are suggesting your most loyal fans are the "minority" whereas YouTubers are the majority. A little strange. I'd rather an honest answer like "we are aware of the complaints but from a business or design perspective we aren't really focusing on that" versus a suggestion that it's not really a thing.

Hope we can still be car friends.

 

[FullCircle]

I'm sure there is data on this and I'm sure it's readily available. Of course no tws fits everyone's ears but it is also true that some models fit more peoles ears than others. For example one TWS may fit 85 percent of ears and another may fit 70 percent.

There is soooo much more involved than that. If the goal was, "build a tws that fit 99.9% of all ears. Ok, one tiny driver, one tiny battery, one tiny pcb with the smallest antenna etc etc....

Disregard the sound and make it as small as possible so it can fit 99.9% of ears

result = a unicorn product that flies of the shelf?

The difference could be meaningful or not to a company. Some might choose to improve it to get it to 85 or even higher. Some may decide 70 is enough.

We are well within those numbers

There is consistent feedback here on headfi about this. I'm a little surprised you are suggesting your most loyal fans are the "minority" whereas YouTubers are the majority.

I'm offering YouTube as form of measurement that can be accessed by the general populace. HeadFi is mostly comprised of English speakers, which is a small sample of our customer base.

YouTube will also be English speakers, but at the least you can look at the number of views and read the comments.

 

[clerkpalmer]

There is soooo much more involved than that. If the goal was, "build a tws that fit 99.9% of all ears. Ok, one tiny driver, one tiny battery, one tiny pcb with the smallest antenna etc etc....

Disregard the sound and make it as small as possible so it can fit 99.9% of ears

result = a unicorn product that flies of the shelf?



We are well within those numbers



I'm offering YouTube as form of measurement that can be accessed by the general populace. HeadFi is mostly comprised of English speakers, which is a small sample of our customer base.

YouTube will also be English speakers, but at the least you can look at the number of views and read the comments.

I mean at this point it's getting close to gas lighting. Not sure why you can't acknowledge what a lot of us have been saying for a long time. I've probably tried 200 tws over the years. Id like to think I'm qualified to comment on fit.

 

[FullCircle]

I mean at this point it's getting close to gas lighting. Not sure why you can't acknowledge what a lot of us have been saying for a long time. I've probably tried 200 tws over the years. Id like to think I'm qualified to comment on fit.

And of these 200, did they have 5 drivers?

 

[dstarr3]

There's the story about the US Air Force. Back in the '50s, they wanted to cut plane costs by designing a "one-size-fits-all" kind of cockpit. They took all kinds of body measurements of over 4,000 pilots, built a seat based on the averages of all those measurements, and the end result was a super uncomfortable torture chair that didn't fit anybody. They promptly ditched the project and focused on engineering adjustable hardware instead.

Human bodies vary too vastly in too many ways. There is no "average" body or "one size fits all" anything. You can attempt to design something that theoretically fits as many people as possible, but the best you'll ever get is a poor fit for most people, and an okay'ish fit for some if you're lucky.

 

[clerkpalmer]

And of these 200, did they have 5 drivers?

That's my point and you are being stubborn. Just acknowledge the problem and say that that there are reasons why engineering or otherwise. It's fine to admit fit isn't one of the strengths of your TWS. But to deny it's an issue isn't really the right way to handle this situation. And referring to YouTube videos as evidence is frankly weak sauce. I think you guys do great things. I'm pretty disappointed in your responses to me here but it is what it is. People are giving you feedback here and asking you to improve things and instead of acknowledging and possibly thanking people for feedback, you are gaslighting. Feel free to have the last word if you must. I'm done speaking on this topic.

 

[dweaver]

Deep breaths, in goes the good air, out goes the bad air....

OK, every TWS due to the form factor and design is a series of choices and compromises.

For Noble, they want 5 drivers, so their shell needed to be wider or thicker, or to use a stem to off load stuff from the shell. But their fan base likes an IEM style shape, not a stem style. So they opted for a thicker shell that may fit XX% of people's ears. End result is a small percentage of people are unhappy with the fit. But the majority of the fanbase love the sound, looks and design enough that the over all product is a success or... if they did make a mistake in their calculations and design it will affect their sales and they will go back to the drawing board.

Does Noble need to air this out in the head-fi forums if there was issue? For a big issue such as true fatal flaw like what happens to cars, probably, but not here aside from maybe a post to an official announcement and remediation process.

For smaller issues or a small percentage of people having an issue very likely NOT here or at an official level as they let reviewers and sites like head-fi inform people about the pros and cons of their product. This is not gas lighting, it is common business practice. If Ford makes a car that gets 45 miles to the gallon but isn't comfortable for men over 6 foot 2, they are not going to sit and harp on that fact. They are going to talk about it's gas mileage. Similarly Noble is just wanting to focus on what makes their product great versus focusing on what is an issue for some people.

 

[clerkpalmer]

Deep breaths, in goes the good air, out goes the bad air....

OK, every TWS due to the form factor and design is a series of choices and compromises.

For Noble, they want 5 drivers, so their shell needed to be wider or thicker, or to use a stem to off load stuff from the shell. But their fan base likes an IEM style shape, not a stem style. So they opted for a thicker shell that may fit XX% of people's ears. End result is a small percentage of people are unhappy with the fit. But the majority of the fanbase love the sound, looks and design enough that the over all product is a success or... if they did make a mistake in their calculations and design it will affect their sales and they will go back to the drawing board.

Does Noble need to air this out in the head-fi forums if there was issue? For a big issue such as true fatal flaw like what happens to cars, probably, but not here aside from maybe a post to an official announcement and remediation process.

For smaller issues or a small percentage of people having an issue very likely NOT here or at an official level as they let reviewers and sites like head-fi inform people about the pros and cons of their product. This is not gas lighting, it is common business practice. If Ford makes a car that gets 45 miles to the gallon but isn't comfortable for men over 6 foot 2, they are not going to sit and harp on that fact. They are going to talk about it's gas mileage. Similarly Noble is just wanting to focus on what makes their product great versus focusing on what is an issue for some people.

There's not a product on the planet that cannot be improved. I don't understand why it's so hard to acknowledge the issue and say its something we are aware of and working on but there are limits. Also how do you know it's a small percentage? It seems like more people here than not have said they don't fit very well. Acceptable? Sure. Well? No. Horrendous? No. Room for improvement - absolutely.

Edit - the Aviot have 5 drivers right? Haven't seen a similar level of complaints over that model fit wise.

Here are some reviews from Bloom Audio:

"I love the audio quality of the Rex5's but the fit is a struggle. I will be trying to find ear tips that fit from Sedna or something else. Will I keep them or trade them for a wired pair is still up in the air"

And another one

"The Rex5 sound vibrant and bright, although lacks slightly in warmth, personally. The main issue i have with these earbuds is that they fit absolutely awful. In addition, the earcups they come with are extremely thin and do not provide any comfort or ability to contain sound."