Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Jan 7, 2023 at 8:59 PM Post #49,921 of 62,592
Well, I think the AT's are going to be short lived. Not that they are bad or anything, just between their size and the fact I have a couple other TWS that sound similar I am going to flip them if possible. Glad I got them on sale, should not have to lose to much hopefully.

Find between them and Sony my ears are screaming for a break regarding being full all the time.

So since my ears were sore I decided to grab the JBL for a while and was playing with the settings and found if I turn OFF the EQ these actually are a lot more like the Sony sound. So going to play with them for the night. They sure are a heck of a lot more comfortable! Will do some new AB between them and the Sony. These might jump up in my little comparison I did a couple days ago for the music part anyway...
 
Jan 7, 2023 at 9:39 PM Post #49,922 of 62,592
OK, so why am i liking these darn XM4's...

OK first off as mentioned by @Canabuc I am a low volume listener ranging from 25% to 50% 90% of the time. But while I listen at low volumes I like to hear emotion in vocals and feel sub-bass in orchestral sound tracks. I still want to "experience" the music. So my tastes lean towards products that allow me to hear/experience those things at lower volume or be able to EQ the product achieve my goal.

What I find is most products that don't come close to allowing me this sound I like out of the box rarely are able to be EQ'd to allow it. Which is why the WF-1000XM4 surprised me so much. Out of the box they were dark sounding just as I suspected they would be. But for some reason they have responded very well to the EQ I applied. I am starting to think the challenge is the quality of the driver(s) in the TWS. If they have a certain bass threshold for example and it is already maxed out at the default tuning, then EQing it louder generally starts to sound bad. The same can be said for the midrange and treble. So in the case of the XM4 it's like Sony tuned the IEM to have a big bass and scaled back the midrange and treble even though the driver could handle more in those areas. Then when I adjusted the EQ the drivers were fully able to express the added midrange and treble because they had the sonic headroom to reach those levels. Other TWS I have when I try to do this and this includes Sony's Linkbuds S just could not deliver the EQ changes fully.

One other thing that might be why I am enjoying the XM4 is the bands they chose for their EQ settings. Most EQ's are usually 5 band and have something like 100hz, 250hz, 1khz, 4-5khz, 10-12khz or the like. Sony is not really any different except is has 5 and chose 400hz, 1khz, 2.5khz, 6.3khz, and 16khz. I have set those to +3 +5 +7 +5 +3 or basically a reverse V. This places the most emphasis as the 2.5Khz region versus the 1Khz region which may be where the emotive notes of singers like Patricia Barber reside and it also seems to give guitars edge, cymbal crashes might be around that 6.3khz giving them added presence. I then added +1 to Clear Bass which just ever so gently increased the bass. I also think that +3 on the 400hz band also added warmth and more presence to bass guitars and double bass.

So what does all this add up in a song?

I used Patricia Barber's song Smash and secondarily the song Missing from the album called Smash.



When listening to Smash there are moments when I can hear the ache in her voice on the XM4 it's like she hits a note and holds it until it almost become unbearable and then she releases it, and you can breathe. Meanwhile pianos are playing, and you can feel the notes and lushness of the notes and double bass notes are full and vibrant with wonderful detail. As the song progresses it transitions into a lament of a guitar and drums that is vibrant and crashing that carries the rest of the song.

Most TWS just lose what I mentioned above. Some can carry some of the song but areas like the vocals just come off as flat or the double bass or piano lose their vibrancy, or the cymbals lose life.

Similarly, the song Missing has even more aching vocals and equal parts of piano and guitar that fill the air. The vocals in this song have almost a whispered quality with hints of a waver. The XM4 conveys all of this. But most of my TWS just lose the sense of intimacy ruining the experience of the song.

my friend......i just bit and took the test.....Im sorry, I ran these songs on my Senheisser Momentum 3 and the Sony XM4. My recommendation is to get yourself a pair of the Senheisser Momentum TWS 3 buds.......The sonys fall apart when multiple instruments crash on top of each other as you recommended in these very songs. Listen I like the Sony Buds.....but they are simply not as detailed as the Senns and they are $100 more which I cannot recommend. When I switch both earbuds back and forth between these songs the best analogy I can provide is with the Sonys its like I just got into my car on a cold winter morning and drove on the highway with a light snow and hail storm........then listening to the Senns was like I turned on my windshield wipers and said...damn, ok I can really see out my window now.
 
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Jan 7, 2023 at 9:39 PM Post #49,923 of 62,592
I was concerned about that but ordered anyway. Fwiw I reached out to cancel my order and said it was due to a bad review. Besides the fact that they were very reassuring that I’ll get a legit product else they’ll pay for the return…Blah blah blah…they really seem to want to make good with the person with the bad review. I suggest you reach out to them if you haven’t already.
Yeah I have been in touch with them. They have been very responsive. They are sending me another pair which they said they will inspect beforehand. They do in fact want to make it right. It’s possible someone sold them counterfeits as well. I’ll report back but as of now they have offered to send another set that is guaranteed legit to me. Just annoying. Phone call with apple then to the Apple Store (probably got Covid in there it was so packed) and now I have to wait but I will say they are REALLY good fakes if they are indeed fake. Apple kept them at the store “for further testing”.
 
Jan 7, 2023 at 9:41 PM Post #49,924 of 62,592
So crazy. I do know that some of the knock-off APP do register as seeming legit on iPhones. Curious if the ANC is solid. IF it is, it'll be on par with the Bose QCII if not slightly better in some situations.
Dude everything looks and feels real but you can tell something just isn’t right. The fact that the serial number says the warranty expired is a dead giveaway. They haven’t been out for a year so that’s not possible but I’ll give the counterfeiters credit. The missing speaker screen. The distortion. The slightly different printing.
 
Jan 7, 2023 at 10:12 PM Post #49,925 of 62,592
Bad news. APP2 arrived with a missing screen and they sound terrible. Something is definitely wrong. It’s weird my iPhone recognizes and the serial number them but it says no coverage for warranty. Guessing I got scammed. They are definitely defective. They look and feel legit however. Maybe a knock off?

I've seen online stores selling knock off APP2 and Airpods 3, with the "best quality" having app recognition and head tracking for the spatial audio feature. a friend of mine bought one and we tested it together, the spatial audio feature indeed works, but the sound? well, let's just say it doesn't sound near as the real thing..
 
Jan 7, 2023 at 10:14 PM Post #49,926 of 62,592
my friend......i just bit and took the test.....Im sorry, I ran these songs on my Senheisser Momentum 3 and the Sony XM4. My recommendation is to get yourself a pair of the Senheisser Momentum TWS 3 buds.......The sonys fall apart when multiple instruments crash on top of each other as you recommended in these very songs. Listen I like the Sony Buds.....but they are simply not as detailed as the Senns and they are $100 more which I cannot recommend. When I switch both earbuds back and forth between these songs the best analogy I can provide is with the Sonys its like I just got into my car on a cold winter morning and drove on the highway with a light snow and hail storm........then listening to the Senns was like I turned on my windshield wipers and said...damn, ok I can really see out my window now.
Just curious, did you use the EQ settings I mentioned and are you normally a low volume listener?

Questions aside, having own several Sennheiser products over the years including the original MTW which I gave a good review on years ago and the 400CX last year. So am familiar with the brand and their house sound. I have no doubt they will be cleaner sounding and probably more detailed etc. I am glad it's working for you.

So in you estimation the Senns had better vocal clarity with more sense of emotion? The double bass had more detail while have the same levelof weight and authority? Piano's were lush and weighty?

Pretty sure the cymbals would have had way more sizzle and airiness that the Sony so I just assume in that area you really preferred the Senns. I personally like and sometimes hate the Sennheiser sound when it comes to cymbals. It can be wonderful but for lots of Jazz I find it to strong and for the lack of better description, to my ears a bit tinny as compared to the Sony which I find more brassy.

My original MTW fell apart quickly and have not been able to bring my self to buy another Senn flagship TWS again. But I have been sorely tempted a couple of times.... LOL

BTW just because I am enjoying the XM4 doesn't mean I don't see flaws. They are not the most comfortable TWS I have and their ambient is less than stellar. I am just surprised I like them as much as I am. Honestly thought I would be flipping them because they just didn't work for me sonically. Only really bought them to scratch an itch while they were still on sale for $250CAD versus $400 which I refused to pay....

OH! And when I say not the most comfortable I had to stop using them and the AT's a couple hours ago and have switched to the JBL Live Free 2 and my ears have been thanking me ever since.

I am thinking because the JBL started with the EQ on our of the box and with the bass boost enabled by default no less I may have not tried them with it totally disabled, or maybe was having an off hearing day of did, because I am really enjoying them with the EQ turned off. Definitely need to spend some more time with them. Glad they have not sold yet. Might just end up keeping them...

OH BTW, one of the reasons I have been trying some of the gear I have bought lately is a quest for a more bass oriented TWS to complement my GB2P and Soundcore A40 both which are way more balanced sounding. The bass TWS is more my guilty pleasure LOL.
 
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Jan 7, 2023 at 10:29 PM Post #49,929 of 62,592
Just curious, did you use the EQ settings I mentioned and are you normally a low volume listener?

Questions aside, having own several Sennheiser products over the years including the original MTW which I gave a good review on years ago and the 400CX last year. So am familiar with the brand and their house sound. I have no doubt they will be cleaner sounding and probably more detailed etc. I am glad it's working for you.

So in you estimation the Senns had better vocal clarity with more sense of emotion? The double bass had more detail while have the same levelof weight and authority? Piano's were lush and weighty?

Pretty sure the cymbals would have had way more sizzle and airiness that the Sony so I just assume in that area you really preferred the Senns. I personally like and sometimes hate the Sennheiser sound when it comes to cymbals. It can be wonderful but for lots of Jazz I find it to strong and for the lack of better description, to my ears a bit tinny as compared to the Sony which I find more brassy.

My original MTW fell apart quickly and have not been able to bring my self to buy another Senn flagship TWS again. But I have been sorely tempted a couple of times.... LOL

BTW just because I am enjoying the XM4 doesn't mean I don't see flaws. They are not the most comfortable TWS I have and their ambient is less than stellar. I am just surprised I like them as much as I am. Honestly thought I would be flipping them because they just didn't work for me sonically. Only really bought them to scratch an itch while they were still on sale for $250CAD versus $400 which I refused to pay....
Dweaver, not trying to rain down on your experience....as I do own the Sony XM4 too so we are in the same boat. Im just trying to suggest you try the Senns 3, there base is actually suprisingly more detailed and resolving then the Sony XM4. In fact all thru the frequency range, the drivers are just more detailed. And just so you dont think Im a Senn Fan boy, these version 3 Senns are much better then the originals. I actually owned the Sennheiser Momentum version 1 and found their drivers lacked bass, and didnt have very good dynamic range and detailed resolution. I was on alot of forums actually telling people they were very overated and over priced. But boy they really cleaned up their sound in these version 3 buds. ( sorry I cant speak for the Momentum 2 as I have never tried them)
Also with all this said, as I mentioned a few posts back, I actually think my AKG N400 buds have even a little more energy and detail then the Momentum 3! However, the rest of the features are dated on the AKG buds....something else to consider
 
Jan 7, 2023 at 10:38 PM Post #49,930 of 62,592
I will probably try the MTW3 at some point. Just haven't been able to get myself to spring the bigs bucks on them. I am sure they do sound good though :).

Unlike the XM4 which really was thinking I would not like, I do expect I will like the Senns. Might be why I hesitate, maybe I am afraid I will be disappointed.
 
Jan 7, 2023 at 11:18 PM Post #49,931 of 62,592
@dweaver you would probably fall in love with the ZE8000, my first impression was that they sound like how people describe Sony but without any of the negatives. The warmth exists before music is played and everything just sounds so intimate.

Also really good for lower volume, I want these to be louder tbh.
 
Jan 8, 2023 at 12:04 AM Post #49,933 of 62,592
@dweaver you would probably fall in love with the ZE8000, my first impression was that they sound like how people describe Sony but without any of the negatives. The warmth exists before music is played and everything just sounds so intimate.

Also really good for lower volume, I want these to be louder tbh.
Did you test the battery life of ZE8000? On the website it says only last 5 hours
 
Jan 8, 2023 at 12:09 AM Post #49,934 of 62,592
I've seen online stores selling knock off APP2 and Airpods 3, with the "best quality" having app recognition and head tracking for the spatial audio feature. a friend of mine bought one and we tested it together, the spatial audio feature indeed works, but the sound? well, let's just say it doesn't sound near as the real thing..
Yeah the sound was waaay off. Not sure what the goal of these knock off is other than to just defraud people.
 
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Jan 8, 2023 at 12:46 AM Post #49,935 of 62,592
Did you test the battery life of ZE8000? On the website it says only last 5 hours
Haven't had them in use for long enough to test battery. Only 2 hours at a time over the last few days. 20 minutes at max volume with 8k activated reduced battery by about 8%, don't know if that would be a consistent drop every 20 min but just what I paid attention to earlier. That would equate to 4.1 hours though.

One thing though is that these won't be anybody's endgame, a fun addition to the high end mix but certainly not the end of the road.
 
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