Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Oct 15, 2022 at 6:08 PM Post #48,241 of 62,458
Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense!


I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?
No, I tried my sony IER Z1R hybrid and they don't fit .. very few tips can fit the buds2 pro..
Till now the "New SpinFit CP360 for True Wireless Earbuds" are perfect with the Bud2 Pro (a perfect seal with my ears).
I found them on amazon.com
 
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Oct 15, 2022 at 6:14 PM Post #48,242 of 62,458
Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense!


I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?
They work on my pair but are not super secure so might pop off. A brand new pair will likely work best as it won't be stretched.
 
Oct 15, 2022 at 10:26 PM Post #48,243 of 62,458
Thank you! I'm definitely gonna try this! I've noticed that, very rarely when annoyed at the gym with the right side fit I press the bud against my ear, thus shoving the tip further and it's more often than not worse. So this makes sense!


I've tried complys, detailed on my post and none seal for me. Do those Sony Hybrid fit the Buds 2 Pro?

Let me know if it works for you too!
 
Oct 16, 2022 at 2:19 AM Post #48,244 of 62,458
This is one chunky thread so maybe I'm repeating the question.

Owner of the Galaxy Buds Plus, and when using my Mac M1 as a source which is not often I can detect difference to the better as compared to my Android phone ( AAC as well).

Without going into details the 'phones sound feels bigger with better tonality and much bigger headspace, better positioning foremost.

I know that transfer codec is the main bottleneck with buds plus but is it possible that AAC conversion and transfer is so much better on mac's ?

I'm tempted to get an "I" device solely on bluetooth range and stability along with sound quality even if I'm not a fan of apple.

I haven't got newer or any Samsung device in the house but did someone do the testing vs Apple with galaxy buds range ?
 
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Oct 16, 2022 at 3:23 AM Post #48,245 of 62,458
Apple does not allow true bit perfect playing, and captures any/all signals going to output (or in this case BT) and adds their own system DSP. This is part of the reason that other system-wide EQ apps don't work
I did some digging and does apple really adds proprietary DSP, or is this another fine example of apple BS marketing (?) AAC is just another codec, it's not magic.
 
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Oct 16, 2022 at 3:48 AM Post #48,246 of 62,458
It feels like I have reached my personal 'end of the line' with the Bose II ... while usually I have already earmarked some piggy bank money for the NEXT thing .. this time I somehow have NO NEXT THING really that I am looking forward to .. I am just so happy with the Bose, despite a few shortcomings (i.e. when I take them out of the case, there is a 1 in 5 chance that they mess up the connection somehow, like, they DO connect to themselves and the phone, but sending commands like 'switch on ANC' does not work ... nothing a simple 'back in and out' won't fix, but I hope they get that sorted in FW sometime)
With all the hype for the TWX9 (and actually being in Japan), I thought I might get those, but someone here said 'if you are happy with the Bose, you don't need them' ... money saved :D I still feel I might get the APP2 eventually, but they are crazy expensive here.
On the cheapo front / AliExpress I am not seeing anything interesting new either and .. I think I am done with cheapo stuff ...

Well, some day we might still get Sony XM5 buds? :D
 
Oct 16, 2022 at 6:59 AM Post #48,247 of 62,458
I did some digging and does apple really adds proprietary DSP, or is this another fine example of apple BS marketing (?) AAC is just another codec, it's not magic.
The context of what I was saying is also rather important to arrive at the answer to your question. It is not proprietary DSP, but Apple is a locked system (so in a way it is, but only because you can't change it). And it isn't necessarily in the codec that the DSP is being done, but through the music player (and Apple ecosystem) itself. AAC does not do any DSP. It is simply a way of compressing file size with as little loss to the original sound as is possible (just like .mp3 is). You are right, it is not magic, though is a very good lossy compression, and also a good (lossy) BT codec (I'm sure you know these two things are different).

On the one hand (in android) you can set a player to "bit perfect" (UAPP or Neutron as example) and if you try and use EQ, it will not affect the sound. This means that the sound is not being altered (DSP) before being sent to the head gear. This same experiment can be done in any iDevice and you will find that you can affect the sound with EQ at any time.

Now, let's take an example where you are using your iDevice and android phone out to an external DAC/amp. You would expect that, if the music player were bit perfect, you would not hear any difference in sound if switching between an android transport and an iDevice because at that point the music player is simply a transport (taking the digital, not analog, signal out to the external DAC/amp). All the DSP SHOULD be happening in the external amp. The point is that if you change from android to iDevice and back again to the same external DAC/amp and head gear you should hear no difference unless DSP is being applied before being transported out to the external DAC/amp. There is no way to avoid this in any iDevice (AFAIK), unless you Jailbreak the iDevice. Android also has a sort of limitation, but only after reaching above 24/48 where it will resample (which is DSP) and will make it sound different than the original. Neutron and UAPP bypass this by using their own "high resolution" driver and bypassing android's.

Where this applies to TWS is that the iDevice (or android) is the transport and the TWS device is the combination of the DAC/amp and head gear from the example from above. If the digital file is being transported with no DSP, then it should sound exactly the same whether it comes from android or iDevice.

Now, where this can be different between android and iDevice is in the implementation of the codecs. But, this still doesn't necessarily "color" the sound, it simply might sound different (less/more high quality) because of the (different) data that is thrown away (I know we're nitpicking here, but there is a difference between DSP and lost data from lossy codecs). So, let's pretend that the implementation of AAC is the same on both the android and iDevice. You will still hear a difference because the Apple ecosystem does do DSP (with no EQ, their version of flat, is not actually flat). Forcing a flat EQ is still DSP, where no EQ at all is just what it sounds like; no DSP (if that makes any sense).

Having said all of that, this is not always a bad thing, nor am I picking on Apple. For many, it is a desirable DSP, and in most cases, it matters not at all. But for those seeking to be as close as possible to the original this could be an issue that they have no control over (it is rather minute in the grand scheme of things). Besides TWS is still not to the point of being completely transparent in the sound (though a lot closer than some years ago), so it really doesn't matter in the end. I was merely throwing my thoughts out there as more of an observation of (possible) interest.
 
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Oct 16, 2022 at 2:13 PM Post #48,248 of 62,458
Tough to answer. There are so many that are even better than those MW07. Personally, I would check out the last few pages of this chain. You'll see the ones we've been chatting about. Usually, new releases. The Audio Technica ATH-TWX9, Galaxy Buds 2 Pro, Bose QCII, B&O EX, AirPods Pro 2 and more. I do think these are all better than the old MW07. Fit, form and function is much better. I have all the above and enjoy them immensely. The newer MW08 is great, but imo the others are better. The TWS keeps getting better. Hope this helps and is a start for you. Others might chime in as well...

Thanks for that.

I'm curious of the reasons why you said the others you listed were better than the MW08?
Did you think that with the newer MW08 body shape that you were able to get a better ear tip depth, and seal than the MW07?
I would think that all the wireless IEM's you mentioned would have great treble, with no bass bleeding into the mids?

I do like headphones with a clear and present treble, and that's one reason why I like the MW07, but I could not get a seal due to the shallow tip depth and the body shape, and they would not stay in place because of that.

I have tried and was able to get deep insertion with the Sennheiser MTW 1st gen but the treble was too rolled off for me. Maybe the MTW 3 would have more of a treble presence without bass bleed?

I may give the GB2 Pro a try. However, I was a little turned off on Samsung Galaxy buds after trying the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, (beans), that I tried. They were a muddy mess with the bass bleeding all over the mids. But I would think the GB2 pro would be in a whole different league than them.

I cannot find much info or sellers for the ATH-TWX9, but they do sound appealing.

The B&O EX look great and are on my short list as well.
 
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Oct 16, 2022 at 2:32 PM Post #48,249 of 62,458
Thanks for that.

I'm curious of the reasons why you said the others you listed were better than the MW08?
Did you think that with the newer MW08 body shape that you were able to get a better ear tip depth, and seal than the MW07?
I would think that all the wireless IEM's you mentioned would have great treble, with no bass bleeding into the mids?

I do like headphones with a clear and present treble, and that's one reason why I like the MW07, but I could not get a seal due to the shallow tip depth and the body shape, and they would not stay in place because of that.

I have tried and was able to get deep insertion with the Sennheiser MTW 1st gen but the treble was too rolled off for me. Maybe the MTW 3 would have more of a treble presence without bass bleed?

I may give the GB2 Pro a try. However, I was a little turned off on Samsung Galaxy buds after trying the Samsung Galaxy Buds Live, (beans), that I tried. They were a muddy mess with the bass bleeding all over the mids. But I would think the GB2pro would be in a whole different league than them.

I cannot find much info or sellers for the ATH-TWX9, but they do sound appealing.

The B&O EX look great and are on my short list as well.
I'm a fan of M&W and have always loved their build quality. I do think their bass can be muddy and the instrument separation isn't as good as others. I keep buying their stuff then either selling or returning due to finding others that just beat them for sound. At least in my opinion. I agree with you about the fit and seal. Takes a lot of tip rolling to get the MW's to fit right. The MW08 were better as far as fit was concerned, but again, still not there. Plus, the ANC is so very weak. The MTW3 are great. I had them up until a week ago. I'm giving more love to the ATH, EX, GBP2, Bose QCII and a few others. Case size and fit were the main reasons that led me to flip them. The others I list just fit me perfect. Having a lot of fun with them. The GBP2 are soooo much better than the Live. If you're on Android, they're a pretty damn good value. I love mine. I'd say get a few from a place like Amazon, or the like with a good return policy so you can hear for yourself and decide.
 
Oct 16, 2022 at 3:16 PM Post #48,250 of 62,458
🤮
Does Amazon resale returned TWS headphones??? The reason I'm asking, is I picked up an obvious used pair of in ear phones from Marshall's. I went outside and opened up the box and the ear phones had earwax all over them.
Inside the tips, caked on the nozzle..
I went back inside Marshall's, showed the manager and some other girls working there and one of them actually vomited...
😃
 
Oct 16, 2022 at 3:20 PM Post #48,251 of 62,458

🤮
Does Amazon resale returned TWS headphones??? The reason I'm asking, is I picked up an obvious used pair of in ear phones from Marshall's. I went outside and opened up the box and the ear phones had earwax all over them.
Inside the tips, caked on the nozzle..
I went back inside Marshall's, showed the manager and some other girls working there and one of them actually vomited...
😃
Yes they do, there the refurbished section for them
 
Oct 16, 2022 at 3:56 PM Post #48,252 of 62,458
I'm a fan of M&W and have always loved their build quality. I do think their bass can be muddy and the instrument separation isn't as good as others. I keep buying their stuff then either selling or returning due to finding others that just beat them for sound. At least in my opinion. I agree with you about the fit and seal. Takes a lot of tip rolling to get the MW's to fit right. The MW08 were better as far as fit was concerned, but again, still not there. Plus, the ANC is so very weak. The MTW3 are great. I had them up until a week ago. I'm giving more love to the ATH, EX, GBP2, Bose QCII and a few others. Case size and fit were the main reasons that led me to flip them. The others I list just fit me perfect. Having a lot of fun with them. The GBP2 are soooo much better than the Live. If you're on Android, they're a pretty damn good value. I love mine. I'd say get a few from a place like Amazon, or the like with a good return policy so you can hear for yourself and decide.

Where did you buy the ATH-TWX9? I'm in the USA, and I can't find a seller. I think all the others can be had on Amazon.
 
Oct 16, 2022 at 4:30 PM Post #48,254 of 62,458
You can find it on amazon.jp, create a new amazon account and have it ship to the US

I would not want to create another Prime membership due to that being cost prohibitive. So I would assume I would have to pay for shipping from Japan? And if I were to return it, I would suppose return shipping would be on me as well?
 

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