Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Nov 9, 2019 at 2:33 PM Post #15,211 of 62,423
Did anybody try the latest tronsmart spunky beat? I saw some online reviews noting qc issues. I suppose they are not an earphone company though they do well with batteries. One thing we are not talking about is the quality of the battery cells used in these earphones. Given the number of charging cycles, most will die within a couple years.
 
Nov 9, 2019 at 2:59 PM Post #15,212 of 62,423
Alright guys...so I got the SSK today. I already had the Kissral R18 and thought these would be the same. Not. At. All. I already knew the Kissral was light on bass, but I didn't realize how much they were lacking (they really are). The SSK has TWICE the amount of bass. Night and day difference. I won't be using the Kissral anymore. Heads up for anyone considering either of these.

You EQed the R18 to try to match? Or is it just unable to deliver and you think the SSK are somewhat flat and have more bass. I find the SSK have an ever so slight bass boost and I can EQ it out and get really decent mostly flat response even. Funny though if the cheaper ones just have more capable over all stuffs. Wouldn't surprise me though, I am sure you can get this DOGO to hit all sorts of cost levels and it's totally possible to game the interest in this design at maximum profit...haha.

Would be interesting if we tried to do a group buy straight from Dogo after a few samples of what they can sell. They have the Qualcomm ones they are trying to hawk on Aliexpress now also that seem slightly improved. There are some Alibaba vendors that don't seem to be Dogo themselves also though. Think you need 500 takers for the smallest order though and not sure that is the listing from Dogo themselves?

I am pretty curious about these qualcomm versions though.
 
Nov 9, 2019 at 3:52 PM Post #15,214 of 62,423


New YouTube review of the mw07 plus...

- he said to steer away from these for phone calls (sucks if true cause I plan to use them for work calls)
- he said there's sibilance and the highs aren't pleasing
- he said they're overall very analytical (not my preference if true)
- also that Airpods Pro have a better sound signature

Anyone relate to what he's saying? Very different feedback than from the impressions and reviews I read.

Only tested it on a bluetooth mic recording app but it sounds fine for wireless earphones.

Sibilance is kind of true. It doesnt roll off any highs so things like the hiss of words ending in S sung by female artists, chimes, etc can be pronounced

Analytic, not sure but I wouldn't say so. It can be revealing due to the unfiltered highs but otherwise it seems to have a strong bass presence. Normally I would expect analytic to be close to flat.

I would say the highlighted points are somewhat true. I have yet to take them into the wild though, just got them a few hours ago and demoed for a bit at home. I think if you like female artists, especially very feminine sounding ones, you may notice the sibilance more.

By the way I wouldnt call it harsh at all. I think the hisses are acceptable for my rather pedestrian ears. And overall they sound great for my purposes. I just kind of understand why someone might say they're sibilant. Perhaps it could be called an actual V-shape and not just bass pronounced like most people call v-shaped
 
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Nov 9, 2019 at 5:11 PM Post #15,215 of 62,423
Thanks for testing. You were certain that ANC were enabled I guess.
Hmm, I have to test with different tips and placement again then. Maybe reset them again.

Can I please bother you with another question (if you have an iPhone). Please set the mic to right only, and see if "Hey Siri" works.
I can only get "Hey Siri" to work if I manually choose the left mic in bluetooth settings.
Not sure I understand.

left is set to noise control and right is Siri? If so, Siri still works for me.
 
Nov 9, 2019 at 5:38 PM Post #15,216 of 62,423
Anyone try both the Airpod Pro and the Liberty 2 Pro yet? Or L2P and WF-1000XM3?

I had a brief listen to the APP at the Apple store and was impressed by comfort, ANC, and ambient mode. The audio quality seemed a bit less than several products I own though.

So my questions are:
  1. Does the APP or WF-1000XM3 have any wind issues with ANC or when talking on the phone?
  2. Does the L2P have any wind issues when talking on the phone?
  3. Over all which has the better microphone for talking?
  4. How comfortable are the L2P as compared to the APP or WF-1000XM3?
  5. Is the audio of the L2P better or worse than the APP or WF-1000XM3 and why?
  6. Do any of these models suffer from footfall sounds when walking? Are any of them free from this noise?
 
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Nov 9, 2019 at 7:10 PM Post #15,218 of 62,423
You EQed the R18 to try to match? Or is it just unable to deliver and you think the SSK are somewhat flat and have more bass. I find the SSK have an ever so slight bass boost and I can EQ it out and get really decent mostly flat response even. Funny though if the cheaper ones just have more capable over all stuffs. Wouldn't surprise me though, I am sure you can get this DOGO to hit all sorts of cost levels and it's totally possible to game the interest in this design at maximum profit...haha.

Would be interesting if we tried to do a group buy straight from Dogo after a few samples of what they can sell. They have the Qualcomm ones they are trying to hawk on Aliexpress now also that seem slightly improved. There are some Alibaba vendors that don't seem to be Dogo themselves also though. Think you need 500 takers for the smallest order though and not sure that is the listing from Dogo themselves?

I am pretty curious about these qualcomm versions though.
The R18 is very flat, and very clear. The lows never interfere with the higher frequencies. This can be a good thing with busy music, but isn't fun to listen to. As for EQ'ing them...my Spotify EQ does not allow anything to be turned up, only down. If I turn anything up like the bass it just lowers everything else. It doesn't turn the bass up. I don't really understand it.
 
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Nov 9, 2019 at 7:18 PM Post #15,219 of 62,423
Only tested it on a bluetooth mic recording app but it sounds fine for wireless earphones.

Sibilance is kind of true. It doesnt roll off any highs so things like the hiss of words ending in S sung by female artists, chimes, etc can be pronounced

Analytic, not sure but I wouldn't say so. It can be revealing due to the unfiltered highs but otherwise it seems to have a strong bass presence. Normally I would expect analytic to be close to flat.

I would say the highlighted points are somewhat true. I have yet to take them into the wild though, just got them a few hours ago and demoed for a bit at home. I think if you like female artists, especially very feminine sounding ones, you may notice the sibilance more.

By the way I wouldnt call it harsh at all. I think the hisses are acceptable for my rather pedestrian ears. And overall they sound great for my purposes. I just kind of understand why someone might say they're sibilant. Perhaps it could be called an actual V-shape and not just bass pronounced like most people call v-shaped

Thanks for chiming in, along with others who have. I think the reviewer just prefers a different type of signature - he probably prefers a much warmer and bassier type of sound which is very typical these days, especially with the current state of "pop" music. Pretty sure he mentioned he much prefers the Sennheiser Momentums...
 
Nov 9, 2019 at 7:27 PM Post #15,220 of 62,423
Okay everyone, here's my Airpods Pro Review after about a week of use (sorry for the crazy long review but I had a lot to say lol):

Going to go through everything in full, but wanted to start by saying that this was definitely a particularly interesting product to review. I do want to credit Apple for making a much improved product from their previous Airpods (which I really disliked), but then again those came out 3 years ago and as such a part of me was hoping for something that was significantly better, especially when you factor in the $250 price point. The one thing I can say is that these are probably going to work for a lot of people and I have to say that there are certain things about them that I absolutely love. On the other hand, in terms of pure sound quality, Apple has done some really weird and arguably cool things that make the Airpods Pro almost trick you into thinking you're listening to something that is better than what it actually is. Anyway, sorry for the tangent, let me begin:

Sound Quality: The sound signature of the Airpods Pro is best described as coherent. All the frequencies fit together very well, with a slight emphasis on bass and mids. What this does is that when you're just walking around listening to them without paying too much attention, or playing music while reading something, working, or while at the gym, it allows music to sit pleasantly and almost comfortingly in the background of your life. As I will get into, however, upon closer listen there are some issues that reveal themselves which prevent the Airpods Pro from achieving that true hi-fi sound quality that many on this thread (myself included) crave in our portable audio.

Bass: The bass on the Airpods Pro is actually not bad at all. It's not super powerful, but extends very low with a bit of roll off that only occurs near the absolute bottom of the frequency range. The low-bass is also not too sloppy, has very little distortion, and is on the tighter side of things, though it sometimes lacks that "epic" feel - it does not always provide that enveloping experience that some TWS like the E12 Ultra, MW07+, Sennheiser MTW, and even MPOW T5 can provide. The mid-bass is solid though in my opinion and adds a nice, non-offensive punch that some TWS like the Tevis can lack. One excellent feature of the bass here is that they never bleed into the other frequency ranges. On the other hand, there's a weirdness here that pops up if you listen for it. There's a bit of a lack of consistency in the tonal quality of the bass as it descends from the mid-bass range into the lower-bass region. It kind of loses it's attack the deeper it goes. While not a big deal and not something you'll normally notice, it adds to that sense of strangeness that exists in the sound quality on the Airpods Pro. All in all though, bass is not bad and can definitely be improved with a slight bass-preference EQ (if you're like me and enjoy some extra warmth).

Mids: Mids on the Airpods Pro are by far its best frequency range. Let me start with vocals, which are pushed a little forward and have excellent detail and tonality. Kind of weird, but when I was listening to them for the first day or two, some higher vocal ranges had a bit of an offensive, almost compressed sounding edge to them. However, for some reason (I hesitate to say burn in?), on my third day of listening, this vocal quality had completely disappeared and vocals ended up sounding great, with some nice body and warmth to lower vocals and great clarity on higher vocals (also rappers sound great). Further, and I do have to praise Apple for this, mid-range instruments have a great timbre, which is not always easy for TWS to pull off. Horn sections, pianos, guitars, etc., all sounded natural and pretty realistic (though not quite at the level of a good set of wired IEMs). There was even some good detail on the pull of a guitar string or the attack of a cello bow. Not much to complain about here, and if you're a mid-head these should actually satisfy you to a certain extent.

Highs: This is where things got weird. Apple has done something in the highs that sort of creates the illusion of good detail retrieval, but upon closer listen there are definitely some issues. What they've done is make highs that are sometimes hidden in the background of certain tracks on some headphones or IEMs "audible" without paying much attention to their actual quality. This works for certain things, but not others. The perfect example of this is with cymbals, particularly loose cymbals. Instead of making a nice crisp "tss" sound, on certain tracks the Airpods Pro make more of a "sshh" sound. While this occurs on other TWS and doesn't always sound that bad, on the Airpods it can sound a little grainy because the actual detail of the cymbal hit is not really there. I don't want to get too into the weeds, but this happens with a few other sounds in the high-frequency range and can make some tracks feel weird or kind of artificial sounding. It's not always there and seems to depend a lot on how the track is produced. The thing is though that if you just have music on in the background and are not closely listening, it feels like the Airpods Pro have a good amount of high-end detail because you can at least hear everything. This is a bit of a trick of the mind that almost works, and it might actually work for some people depending on your use case. One last thing I'll say on the highs is that some in the upper register can be pushed further back in the mix than they are on other TWS sets, whereas some mid-highs are pushed more forward and come off a little bright though never harsh. At the end of the day though, the highs provide an overall impression of clarity though lag behind a bit in actual quality.

Soundstage/Imaging: As is true for most TWS, the soundstage on the Airpods Pro is not wide at all. At the same time though, the imaging is definitely above-average. While I wouldn't call the imaging pinpoint accurate, it definitely does a good job of placing instruments in different locations within the mix, providing a good sense of separation. Also, even though they lack width, there's some height to the sound, with certain instruments feeling like they are above other instruments. Not a bad job, but not great if you like a wide soundstage. When things get busy they can sometimes sound a little closed in.

Overall, regarding the sound I'd say this: If you really like mids then you'll really like these, and the bass on most tracks ranges from above-average to solid despite lack of consistency in the deep bass region. If you need accuracy and precision in your highs though, I would consider looking elsewhere. You'll hear the highs, but if you listen closely you might not like what you hear.

Look/Fit: Now I was never a huge fan of how the Airpods looked even when compared to other TWS on the market. These look a bit better in the ear due to the smaller stem, and obviously you get way cooler as a person when you walk around outside with them. Huge personality boost lol. Fit is absolutely fantastic for me. I got small ears and these just feel great, they never fell out even while playing basketball, and I could wear them for a really long time without discomfort. Love how they just sit nicely in the ear without putting pressure anywhere.

Extra Features: Okay I think we need to take a step back just for a second and realize how dope technology is now. We're all like jaded already by ANC on earbuds, but seriously this is an incredible thing that companies are managing to pull off on such tiny pieces of hardware. And on the Airpods Pro, the ANC is absolutely no gimmick. It's definitely superior to the MW07+ and maybe slightly less strong than the Sony's, but it's definitely close to the best on the market particularly when considering how small and light these things are. Continuous noises such as subway rumble, bus noise, and passing traffic are close to eliminated, and they do a much better job than the MW07+ at drowning out people talking around you, particularly when you are in a busy area and the talking becomes a continuous bustle. This is a killer feature and has allowed me to play my music and podcasts at lower volumes than I normally do, and work great when paired with phone calls. Now to the transparency mode. I never used to care or even think about transparency mode before. With other TWS, I would just take out an earpod if I needed to talk with someone and this did not seem like a hassle at all. Here though, with how easy it is to activate, I find myself using it all the time and it's by far the best I've heard. It allows you basically to interact with and hear everything around you as if you weren't wearing earbuds, but also have something going on in the background, though you do have to reduce the volume a bit to achieve this effect. I've actually grown to enjoy this feature quite a bit. Also the squeeze controls are really intuitive once you get used to them. Lack of volume control is a miss here, but I have no shame so I just use always-on Siri, which also works quickly and seamlessly on iOS.

Battery: Battery life is solid, though nothing special. I got around 5.5 hours with ANC on. The great thing about them though is that the case has some of the fastest charging I've experienced on TWS. You literally pop them in for around 5 minutes and they go from dead to like 30% (which is around 1.5 hours of use). Definitely sufficient for my use.

Case: One of the best cases on any TWS hands down for me. I love the size. I honestly don't know what I'm going to do when I use other earbuds with a case that doesn't fit into the small pocket within my jeans pocket. It's just so damn convenient. Also, it feels quite durable and is very smudge and scratch resistant. I've already dropped it a few times and it doesn't show a scratch. The one sometimes annoying thing about it is that it's quite slippery in the hands, so drops are happening more than with other TWS I have, and the case just pops open and the earbuds fly out when you drop them, so seems like a bit of a recipe for losing your earphones very easily if dropped on the street. Gotta be very careful with these.

Microphone/Calls: Calls on your end are great particularly with noise cancelling on. Calls on the other end also seem great, and I've gotten zero complaints walking around NYC even when it gets noisy. Great mic quality. Probably among the best out there.

Connectivity: Zero connectivity issues with my iPhone. Did not try with Android. A couple weird hiccups when connecting with my Windows laptop so I do think it prefers iOS devices. Still, it switches back and forth from my phone to laptop quite easily. Also the actual bluetooth transmission quality with respect to the music does seem better on these than the MW07+, though not totally easy to tell. It really does suck that the MW07+ don't have AAC. Just as a business decision, I really don't get how M&D could release a premium product that doesn't work as best as it possibly could with with Apple products. I'm not going to harp to much on that though bc the MW07+ still sound way better than the Airpod Pros.

Conclusion: While I will say that I wanted more out of the sound quality (perhaps even much more given the price), I'm also definitely keeping these. Though they won't be my only pair of TWS, I know for a fact that I'll be able to find use cases for them in my everyday life. If you're just going to buy one pair of TWS and you want the best sound quality that money can buy, these are not for you. However, two of the main benefits of TWS are convenience and comfort, and the Airpods Pro are the absolute best in those two categories. It's feature set is also near the top, and in my opinion works the best considering how small these things are. Meanwhile, sound quality is decent, though not spectacular, and benefits from some slight bass-favor EQ. Overall, if you really like mid-range focused IEMs and want a TWS that delivers that signature in a super convenient and well-featured package then these are definitely for you.

Awesome review. Seems like an easy recommendation for those who are looking in that price range for all these features and aren't too anal about SQ.

The best part is that these will now set a new standard in what a total package should be. Now we just need more well known brands for this site to get their crap together. Or for newcomers to make a statement and have first dibs in a highly overlooked market...
 
Nov 9, 2019 at 10:25 PM Post #15,222 of 62,423
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Nov 9, 2019 at 10:50 PM Post #15,223 of 62,423
Rtings tested the APP. Among the highlights is that they concluded the ANC is better than Sony which is different from most observations here.

Link here: https://www.rtings.com/headphones/reviews/apple/airpods-pro-truly-wireless

I am now wondering whether selling the PB pro and keeping the APP is the better move even though i dont love the sq

Nice, some measurements with these. Looks like rtings uses an adjusted Harman Target (2017) for their compensation which calls for a 10dB bass boost and DF for the treble regions. The nice thing is that you can quickly convert this over to the DF normalization (something similar to what an Etymotic would be based off of). Granted it's more of an old school compensation, but it shows a lot of what Apple was targeting. I've adjusted the bass for the DF normalization below at some points and connected them: 3 points < 20, 20, 30, 40, ~58, 80, 100, 200. Everything after the ~200 regions is clean for DF since they use DF for everything past this point.

The right earphone looks to be having a worse seal if you look below 20Hz, though it doesn't make that big of a difference, the midrange also looks a little wonky. I drew a line at max(left, 20 Hz, 4kHz) + max(left, 20Hz, 4kHz) / 2. What does this show? From 20 Hz all the way through 4kHz, the AirPod Pros are within 2.5dB from DF neutral. More specifically, < 2k the response is about 2.5dB above that line (except for the dip at 1k) and above 2k, the response is about 2dB below that line once you hit 5k with strong spikes through to the 10k range. If they had evened out the spikeyness > 4k Hz, removed the large increase at 10k and average it out, you'd actually get something very close to the Etymotic target curve. I know there was a blog post (don't remember the source) that talked about how Etymotic originally targeted DF then found out that treble was too harsh with DF due to loudness in recordings. They lowered the treble response in their originals in twice as they were trying to get it right. This resulted in 3 IEMs, the ER-4B, ER-4S, and ER-4P which were released in that order. There curves can be seen in Rin Choi's blog.

The Harman target has really taken the audiophile community by storm in the past 5 years and with good reason, it helps further mask out the recording issues (due in part to the loudness wars) that Etymotic battled years past. Etymotic tried to do it by reducing treble, Harman does it by increasing bass. The end goal is to remove those elements of the recording that are "harmful" to the enjoyment of music while maintaining everything else. The Harman curve gets close to this and does it pretty well. That being said, Apple has never really targeted the Harman curve in their IEMs. Their ADDIEM were remarkably very close to DF like the APP are.

DF_Comp_APP.jpg
 
Nov 10, 2019 at 12:02 AM Post #15,224 of 62,423
Did anybody try the latest tronsmart spunky beat? I saw some online reviews noting qc issues. I suppose they are not an earphone company though they do well with batteries. One thing we are not talking about is the quality of the battery cells used in these earphones. Given the number of charging cycles, most will die within a couple years.

I'm using it, what's your concern? I find it's good for the price.

And I don't think I will use any TWS for 5 years, esp. for 20 bucks one.....
 
Nov 10, 2019 at 1:11 AM Post #15,225 of 62,423
I'm using it, what's your concern? I find it's good for the price.

And I don't think I will use any TWS for 5 years, esp. for 20 bucks one.....
Oh I was curious about how they sound like. Compared to m5 or other popular options.

More than value, I just think it's a pity that we are creating heaps of e-trash that is hard to recycle. We could make tws with button cell batteries that are removable with a screwdriver for example, or come up with other more sustainable solutions. Alas, that is not the world as it is now.
 

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