Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Nov 1, 2019 at 7:33 PM Post #14,701 of 62,547
ha, majorhifi and Audio46 again..
Odd that Audio46 had a review yesterday but they made it private later (and they left the Korean one up)... I didn't get to watch it but the shell and case look generic, not sure about the drivers though. They look a bit like one of the Aliexpress Type-C case earbuds and to a lesser extent the Wavefun X-Pods 3/YTOM T1.

Curious to get the YTOM T1 Pro which goes on sale 11.11, although the impressions here have been quite varied with some calling them flat and others saying they're muddy...

Has anyone stumbled across where to buy a white Sabbat E12 Ultra? I stumbled across this list of TWS from a Taiwanese channel showing a white E12 and X12:


Here's a TWS from Momax with Type-C charging but not much else standing out except some "nice" colours. In Taiwan I saw quite a few stores sell their power banks and chargers.
http://www.momax.net/product/true-wireless-bluetooth-earbuds-charging-case/
 
Nov 1, 2019 at 8:48 PM Post #14,703 of 62,547
Haha. I find it funny how universally acclaimed these generic $22 chicom buds are for SQ. I have them also and totally agree with all the acclaim.
Haha. I find it funny how universally acclaimed these generic $22 chicom buds are for SQ. I have them also and totally agree with all the acclaim.

And...I just saw Bart gave them FIVE stars/Excellent...only 10 of 58 he’s reviewed got that!
 
Nov 1, 2019 at 9:37 PM Post #14,705 of 62,547
Eh, price =/= SQ. I had an old pair of RE0s that sounded better than IEMs 10x it's price, and I copped them for $80. That was a good buy lol.

I find this becomes particularly true with in ears vs other headphones or even more speakers. I don't think there are as great of ways to add cost for SQ in such a product as exist for something like speakers.
 
Nov 1, 2019 at 11:31 PM Post #14,706 of 62,547
Got the SSK in tonight. I'm really enjoying them so far. Think it would be best if I could find a better tip in L to try. Any suggestions on one that'll fit the case? Not looking for foam though.

These don't have quite the thump as the Melomania but they have a great sound and the volume is much better.
 
Nov 1, 2019 at 11:51 PM Post #14,707 of 62,547
Got the SSK in tonight. I'm really enjoying them so far. Think it would be best if I could find a better tip in L to try. Any suggestions on one that'll fit the case? Not looking for foam though.

These don't have quite the thump as the Melomania but they have a great sound and the volume is much better.
I'm a huge fan of the JVC spiral dot. The spinfit 360's fit really well, but I feel they alter the sound quality to me and make my TWS's sound more smooshed. towards the mid range. You get more bass out of them, but it's more high sub/ Low Mid bass IMO.
 
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Nov 2, 2019 at 12:26 AM Post #14,709 of 62,547
Eh, price =/= SQ. I had an old pair of RE0s that sounded better than IEMs 10x it's price, and I copped them for $80. That was a good buy lol.

The RE0 are good, but they aren't that good. Maybe better or as good as stuff 2, possibly 3x it's price, definitely not 10 though.
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 12:35 AM Post #14,711 of 62,547
Initial Impressions of the Apple AirPods Pro

I’ve had the AirPods for a little over 48 hours now. TWS headphones have been somewhat of an interest of mine. In terms of my lineup of headphones I’ve tried/have are the Apple AirPods, MEE X10, Drop+NuForce Move, B&W E8, Phiaton Bolt, Sony WF1000X. The AirPods Pro are the latest addition to the set. I have a tendency to enjoy headphones that are more linear in nature (a la Etymotic) most of the time, though I’ve found myself enjoying some bassy and V-shaped signatures if they are done properly.

The AirPods Pro offer a bunch of feature that may be of interest to users. Mainly:
  • Seal test to ensure a good seal
  • Improved control scheme
  • Active noise cancelation/transparency
  • Improved audio quality
  • Active EQ

Fit, finish, and control

One of the two features that I was interested in with the AirPod Pros was Apple’s seal test implementation. I’ve always been a fan of the Sensaphonics Seal Test to ensure that I had a good seal. If I was ever unsure, that test would always give me a definitive answer. Though I’ve gotten better and just figuring out seal by ear, this was a more objective way to do it (though its still subjective).

Apple’s test seemed like something that didn’t seem like it was impossible. Well, I made a comment earlier in the thread to test other tips even the seal test told you had a good seal after I figured out the mediums were better than the small tips for my ears. I stand by it, for the sake of testing it, I tested all 3 tips in their seal test. Apparently I have perfect ears because they all seal well. Medium seals better than small which is better than large. I feel like although Apple’s test is “good enough”, it won’t give you the optimal tip selection and that still needs to be dealt with using some tip rolling.

In terms of looks, they’re white and look Apple-esque. There’s not much more to say about them. The headphones are popular enough where people will notice them not only as AirPods, but the “new ones”.

One of the happy additions to the AirPods Pro is actually the force strip thingy. It’s pressure sensitive and the headphone makes a “click” noise when you press it. Sometimes the click isn’t loud enough and you’re left in confusion on whether or not you clicked it. I personally would rather have the “click” noise, but some haptic feedback, Taptic engine anyone? I don’t really see this as a possibility, but it would be nice to have. It would legitimately make it feel like a button without having a moving part. With all that said, the strip is truly force based and not capacitive as it works flawlessly with gloves or the like covering your hands, as they should.

In terms of comfort, the AirPods are quite comfortable, but not unlike any other TWS I own. They still require a pretty deep insertion depth (as deep as the tips allow anyway) to get good bass response out, so they don’t quite disappear from my ears. But they are the first ported design to feel open back (with transparency or ANC on) due to the way it cancels out ear canal noise (more on that below).

All in all, Apple’s seal test can use a lot of work as I feel like it hands out false positives quite freely and doesn’t quite work well for everyone. I can’t confirm it, but I’m sure it’ll give you a strong true negative result, but comes with a pretty high false positive rate. The control is very well thought out and works great and I’m happy with the fit.

Noise Control

ANC has never really been something I was a fan of in the past. They would end up changing the signature of the headphone quite a bit (and normally for the worse) and have odd anomalies. That said, I’m not going to be a strong authority on ANC with these. The ANC is actually really good and quite impressive. Part of it is due to the fact that they also cancel out the noise inside of your ear canal which tends to create that sort of stuff sound/feeling you get as well as jaw movements and other head movements. That said, in terms of canceling out external noise, the AirPods Pro are slightly better than my older Sony WF-1000X (which were well regarded at the time).

I’ve a lot of headphones that have a transparency setting and have to admit the AirPods Pro kind of seem, well seamless when it comes to it. With music completely off, the sound you get is extremely close to what you’re expecting to hear as if you didn't have the headphones on. There is still a slight "processed" sound to it, mainly in your own voice. It’s pretty amazing for what it is. Wind noise, however, becomes an issue with the transparency settings. Even something as small as walking semi-quickly gets you a nice whoosh whoosh to be produced. I can’t imagine what it would be like running or even biking.

Overall, the noise control is pretty well executed on the AirPods Pro. I actually like the ANC feature, something I tend to not like (even on the WF-1000X I have) and the transparency controls are pretty seamless (they just need to deal with the wind noise)

Audio Quality

Now I know y’all didn’t come here for my thoughts on fit, finish, UI, ANC, and transparency. Maybe you didn’t come here to hear my thoughts at all! (well here I am anyways). Historically on Head-Fi, it’s been all about the sound. No matter the fit issues *cough*iSine*cough*, wonky designs *cough*iSine again*cough*, build issues *cough*HiFiMan*cough*, or anything else of the nature, sound quality normally trumped most, though others did influence headphone preferences.

The easiest way for me to describe the sound is surprisingly linear. The OG AirPods had a signature that was V-shaped with a strong bass focus which created a somewhat dirty bass response with a veiled midrange. The Pros deal with both of these really and have a signature I’d consider bright. It reminds me of a more refined ADDIEM of yesteryear with better bass response. If you’re looking for a warm or bassy headphone, this isn’t it.

The bass actually extends quite deep off though it isn’t without a slight roll off. The low and mid bass have a nice presence and good strong body to it. Decay isn’t slow, but also isn’t fast. What results is a bass response that isn’t the tightest, but still clean. However, the low-end tends to be very one-note and unable to reproduce subtle bass texturing. Subbass regions also suffers from lack of presence which is unfortunate.

Going into the midrange, this is the area that surprised me the most (especially with Apple’s most recent headphone offerings severely lacking in this area). There is strong clarity here with nice timbre and detailing overall. The headphone is one I’d describe and very vocal and midrange focused producing a lot of energy throughout the entire midrange. Surprisingly it also provides a pretty good sound stage as well. It’s not super huge, but it effortlessly creates separation and the idea of distance also comes into play mainly due to a slight airiness to the sound.

The air is going to be the main positive point when it comes to the treble and highs as it’s the one that stands out the most. The highs are well detailed throughout though don’t really have that sparkle or shine that you’d get with really good treble. I don’t really get the energy I’d want from the treble, just splashes here and there. The good news about this somewhat toned down treble is that fact that it is easy to listen to and mostly non-fatiguing. I know there are people sensitive to highs and feel like these would probably suit them for the most part (if they could get over the energetic midrange).

I’m quite happy with the sound signature overall and coming from a side that prefers something with a strong midrange, good bass, and non-offensive treble, this really suits my needs from a sound signature perspective. Of all the TWS headphones I own, I’d say these tie with the B&W E8 and sit right behind the Drop+NuForce Move (there is something truly special about the bass presentation on the Move; it’s almost euphoric). It’s a far leap from the OG AirPods which I would rank last in terms of sound quality of all the TWS headphones I own. That being said, that signature is not for everyone. Like I said earlier, if you're looking for a pair of warm/bassy headphones, I'd stray away from these.

Conclusions

When the AirPods first released, I said that if Apple could just fix the sound signature to something more linear, they’d have a big winner in my books. Well, Apple delivered with the Pro that adds some pretty nice features to the table. Some of the features work well, others need some work. The ANC, even if it’s not top of its class, is no joke and the transparency features are great. Despite the fact that they aren’t a bargain for what you get, they aren’t a total rip off either, and even at the 250 dollar mark, I could say I recommend them if you can deal with the midrange-focused sound signature they offer. Just remember to tip roll and insert deeply to get a good sound.
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 1:10 AM Post #14,712 of 62,547
Well Liberty 2 Pro are now available in Canada at $199CAD. So now I start saving and make my final decision.

As much as I like ANC at times, it always has issues in wind even with settings like wind reduction from Sony. So I am a bit reluctant to buy the WF-1000XM3 but to mention they are $300CAD.

I am willing to try the Echo Buds as they are very low profile and have ANC but I worry a bit about BA only sound as I generally prefer either a Dynamic only or hybrid driver solution for sound.

I like the look of the new Jabra 75T but suspect they won't have good enough sound quality.

Which brings me back around to the L2P, while I think it might be a bit big, I have more confidence in its audio quality, call quality, and over all design and battery life. It just ticks alot of the right boxes for me aside from size and lack of ANC or ambient sound modes. I think I will have to go L2P...
I’d recommend you contact Anker to find out if they are the “new version”, which supposedly doesn’t have the hissing issue.
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 1:13 AM Post #14,713 of 62,547
I agree with you but this is the heart of the issue: how is it that $40 chi fi can sound similar or better than $250 apple buds. Couldn't apple do better?
That was my main issue. I just couldn’t stomach $270 (with tax) for “decent” sound. I could live with a lot for $25, not so much 10x the cost.
 
Nov 2, 2019 at 1:28 AM Post #14,714 of 62,547
My favourite TWS to date. Apple Airpods Pro, Sony WF-1000XM3, Aviot TE-D01d, Lypertek Tevi :)

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