Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[dweaver]

So WF-1000XM5 will have a new 8.4mm driver... interesting...

 

[neo21]

Throwing in my 2ct here as a noob (longtime lurker): I have recently had the opportunity to compare Technics AZ80 & AZ60 mk2, Sony 100xm4, Sennheiser Momentum 3 TWS, Final ZE8000 TWS, B&O E8 Gen 3, Jabra Elite 85t, Devialet Gemini, and 2 or 3 others (that I immediately dismissed). This comparison was done in a decently quiet environment that was still noisy enough that anc performance mattered in one sitting (close to 3h).

I used my own source, LG V20 Android, with a mix of Flac (CD or hires quality) and Spotify (highest streaming quality). Installed the apps for each earphone and used the highest quality codec supported by the respective earphone (up to LDAC, the phone I used has no support for aptx lossless only aptx HD). Among the tracks used were Jean Michel Jarre's "Amazonia Binaurial", Nirvana "MTV Unplugged", Max Richter "Exiles", Hans Zimmer "Interstellar", Johnny Cash "Hurt" plus some Air, Daft Punk, Bill Evans, and Michael Jackson thrown into the mix. I did compare 2-3 earphones at the same time and then moved on with my favourite adding another contester into the mix, maybe adding a former runner up again for comparison. Not super scientific I admit but tried my best given the circumstances (taking advantage of the opportunity).

So in respect to the question of this thread, my answer would be: "Yes, you can go fully wireless IEM...with a bunch of footnotes."

To elaborate on said footnotes:
i) This applies to portable use cases where you enjoy your music mostly in noisy environments. This might be an AC running, or a fridge, or a coffee shop you work from, or just nearby traffic. Then the current generation of anc tws are already delivering an end result better than any open back headphones and 99% of closed back ones (taking into consideration your portable source and effective noise floors).
ii) Realistic constraints regarding the source apply. An excellent MDR-Z1R driven by a WMA2 will still outperform a tws if the noise pattern is lending itself to it but once the noise floor becomes too erratic (e.g., a coffee shop that gets more crowded and background music changes to something more lively and entrance doors opening more regularly to a busy street) this is not the case anymore.
iii) Full sized wireless headphones are not really better once the noise floor becomes erratic. The iem tws benefit from an easier to tune seal (= tips of your preference matching the anatomy of your individual ear). I base this on comparing Focal Bathys, and current gen Sennheiser and Sony full sized wireless.
iv) Comfort matters. The current generation of iem tws have become smaller and lighter and generally more ergonomic in my opinion. This is in comparison to full sized wireless and previous generation of tws earphones.
v) Battery life is good enough. I don't sit through 6h or longer in one go. I take a break that is long enough for the tws to recharge in their case. Otherwise full sized wireless are the better option.
vi) You are on Android.
vii) Your favourite iem is not providing sufficient seal/insulation from the noisy background. Similar to the closed back headphone footnote, this might be the case just occasionally but often enough the make good anc matter and then the tws will yield a better overall performance in my opinion.
viii) You are willing to Eq. I think that is a requirement to get iem tws to the required performance levels.
ix) You don't listen at really loud volume levels.

As usual, this might differ depending on the genre of music you listen to and the comfort levels you need in wearing tws.

I also think that the codec doesn't matter as much for this generation of tws. As long as it is at least aptx the hardware (driver, dac) and dsp (anc, eq) seem to be still bigger factors.

PS: My personal winner was the Devialet Gemini (followed by the B&O)... Purely selected for sound performance.

PPS: Sorry for the long post.

 

[Slowhand]

So WF-1000XM5 will have a new 8.4mm driver... interesting...

Very! I was for sure expecting 6mm again which tempered my expectations.

XM5 vs AZ80 comparisons, please hurry up

 

[cresny]

Very! I was for sure expecting 6mm again which tempered my expectations.

XM5 vs AZ80 comparisons, please hurry up

I have the AZ60 but skipped the XM4. I could use some top-tier ANC, which I expect the Sony to have, and yeah the new driver seems intriguing. I just cancelled my $229 AZ80 order with B&H.

 

[fusionramjet]

I’ll preface this with I don’t listen loud. That said, they get really really loud in hifimode. I cannot imagine anyone complaining about volume. When you switch modes, the volume drops quite a bit. Still Loud enough for me in ANC mode but the slider goes up to 50-60 percent versus like 25 percent.

As for bass, nothing beats the NTP for sub bass. Those things are nuts. I think they hit harder and deeper than the AZ80 however by a decent margin. Given that the ANC is usable and the fit is really good, they pretty much make the AZ expendable in my collection. The only reason I may keep them is for the multipoint.

Thank you for comparing!
Very useful. The AZ80 is plenty loud for me.
Also, bass hitting harder and deeper than AZ80 is great.
Somehow, I’m now used to the AZ80 bass even in Direct/flat EQ setting.
Looking forward to the Svanar

 

[fusionramjet]

So WF-1000XM5 will have a new 8.4mm driver... interesting...

dang. Hope I can resist these.

 

[LoryWiv]

Higher codecs bring out more clarity detail in hifi music. Not saying that that alone defines the rest of the sound but I like to hear as much possible detail. I do use my Audeze Euclid wired from time to time and tws are not to that level yet. But with Aptx Lossless offers the best experience for detail retrieval. The rest like sound stage, instrument separation, treble etc comes second to me

What sources support AptX Lossless at this point?

 

[Gilroypro]

What sources support AptX Lossless at this point?

What sources are you specifying. Music services or devices or even music files?

 

[Dust by Monday]

So strange that more companies don't make wireless IEM adapters.

 

[JBean]

Looks like the new Technics AZ40M2 has noise cancelling - a nice addition absent from the original model. Their smaller size and lower price makes them an intriguing option among the more expensive AZ60M2 and AZ80. https://www.techradar.com/news/tech...eaper-but-still-pack-the-best-premium-feature

 

[Gilroypro]

So far liking them. Definitely change to other eartips. The ones they come included are bad. Will give input once I get more time with them

 

[ld100]

No iPhone app? How come?

Samsung decided not to make one. I guess a marketing strategy to force people to buy their phones to enjoy the best sounding wireless buds on the market at the time.

 

[LoryWiv]

What sources are you specifying. Music services or devices or even music files?

Thanks for asking for clarification, I didn't frame the question well, will try again: I just ordered FiiTii HiFiDots which support AptX Lossless codec. I don't think my DAP, phone or PC BT dongle can transmit using that codec. I know for a codec to be used both transmitting and receiving devices need to utilize it. So the question is what transmitting devices are available that can send a BT stream using AptX Lossless and allow me to get the most out of my TWS? Hope that's clearer now.

 

[Caipirina]

all this talk about multi BA / hybrid set ups made me recall THIS monster

Charging it up as we speak and see how it still compares now



KZ are really trying out everything in multi BA setups ... (this is IEM, not TWS: )

 

[Tommy C]

Samsung decided not to make one. I guess a marketing strategy to force people to buy their phones to enjoy the best sounding wireless buds on the market at the time.

Oh yeah. I thought you said no iPhone app for the Liberty 4.