Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Apr 4, 2023 at 10:32 AM Post #52,006 of 62,777
If you want even less information there is this tweet too

https://twitter.com/MoondropLab/status/1630822809239732225
IMG_20230325_215244.jpg
I believe that's the Voyager, an actual wireless set. They stated that the neckband will probably get release before it.
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 7:03 PM Post #52,008 of 62,777
+1 Another point to TWS vs Wires.

I've been testing a few wired baddies lately and researching into a lot more. Even cheaper single driver units like the 7Hz Timeless and the triplet driver Tri i3 Pro need extra power to get a loud enough volume from. The majority of units out there recommend power to drive. As if I'm going to buy a $1200 DAP / AMP to run a $250 IEM.

Other than the ZE8000 I've never had a volume issue with TWS and honestly, using the two aforementioned iems for running has been an exercise in itself. Having recently gone back to the Fiio FW5 I much prefer the convenience and extra loudness with barely a noticeable sound difference vs the wires.
Why the hell do you need a $1,200 DAC and amp setup to power IEMs? There are many dongles much cheaper that amplify IEMs way more than they need to be and have exquisite sound.

My ie600 with my m12 dongle are insanely good
 
Apr 4, 2023 at 8:39 PM Post #52,009 of 62,777
Added 3 new tws to the collection--ordered 6 and decided to keep 3 and send 3 back. Have not purchased any tws in awhile and just went a bit crazy.
Keeping-
1- Noble Focus Mystique---ex sound--really enjoy these,
2- Camp Fire Audio Orbit- excellent comfort and unique sound--mids are way overtuned but IF you are an EQ tweeker it can be molded into some really special sounding tws---not for everyone but it works for me--and the fit and comfort is the best I have ever experienced which is the most important thing to me,
3- FiiO FW5- nice fit and I like the sound--a nice feature is the FiiO ap can give you balance control---which I like
Returned-
4- Technics AZ 60---just could not get a good seal- but I really liked the sound--and a new version is going to be available soon
5- B&O EQ--actually really liked these--but not as much as the top 3
6-KEF mu3--nice sound but nothing special--top 3 are way better

Still want to get the B&W Pi7--version 1 is $ 170 used on amazon and also want Final 8000---these will have to wait a bit .WAY too many incredible products available today and newer and " better" on the way-----😜
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 1:43 AM Post #52,010 of 62,777
Why the hell do you need a $1,200 DAC and amp setup to power IEMs? There are many dongles much cheaper that amplify IEMs way more than they need to be and have exquisite sound.

My ie600 with my m12 dongle are insanely good
Forget that part lol. I was mostly being facetious. But it is crazy that you can run a TOTL Noble iem off a phone without needing to max volume, but you can't do the same with a $200 iem.

AND even better that tws can get there too.
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 2:11 AM Post #52,011 of 62,777
Are there any more informationa about the new Technics? Somehow I can't find anything and you're all writing it's coming out soon.

On another topic, does it make sense to take an IEM/headphone which supports aptx Adaptive, Lossless and/or LDAC, but my smartphone won't be able to take advantage of the higher-end codecs (not supported)? Will I loose a lot from their sound when using only aptx or aac? E.g. currently I have the Sennheiser MTW3 and wondering if I'm missing a lot since I can only use aptx and not Adaptive.
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 7:48 AM Post #52,012 of 62,777
After spending the day wearing ER4XR paired to UTWS5, I figure I’d share my two cents about the topic here as a layperson with no expertise in the field.

I believe that technology has the potential to bring Bluetooth audio to the fidelity levels of wired audio. But it’s going to be a question of whether manufacturers will bite any more than what we have already, like Hifiman, Bathys or Mark Levinson.

The most marketed use case for wireless audio is outdoor use for convenience while commuting, traveling or exercising, and not so much for critical listening. Outdoor urban noise interferes with your listening experience. Sure, I was able to block a crap-ton of that out thanks to Etymotic’s strength in ridiculous passive isolation, but that compromises situational awareness (I was listening only in public transit and cafes; the buds went away after I got on the move).

As a result, the audio quality really just has to be “good enough” when you take your environment into account.

I think it’s going to take another AirPods Max to galvanize the still-nascent high-end wireless market before we see more movement towards parity in audio fidelity.
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 9:46 AM Post #52,013 of 62,777
After spending the day wearing ER4XR paired to UTWS5, I figure I’d share my two cents about the topic here as a layperson with no expertise in the field.

I believe that technology has the potential to bring Bluetooth audio to the fidelity levels of wired audio. But it’s going to be a question of whether manufacturers will bite any more than what we have already, like Hifiman, Bathys or Mark Levinson.

The most marketed use case for wireless audio is outdoor use for convenience while commuting, traveling or exercising, and not so much for critical listening. Outdoor urban noise interferes with your listening experience. Sure, I was able to block a crap-ton of that out thanks to Etymotic’s strength in ridiculous passive isolation, but that compromises situational awareness (I was listening only in public transit and cafes; the buds went away after I got on the move).

As a result, the audio quality really just has to be “good enough” when you take your environment into account.

I think it’s going to take another AirPods Max to galvanize the still-nascent high-end wireless market before we see more movement towards parity in audio fidelity.

I'm curious on how's the fit of the ER4XR+UTWS5 on the ear... Would you mind to take a picture of them on the ear?
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 10:40 AM Post #52,014 of 62,777
I see lots of wireless buds on my travels in NYC
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 3:17 PM Post #52,015 of 62,777
Added 3 new tws to the collection--ordered 6 and decided to keep 3 and send 3 back. Have not purchased any tws in awhile and just went a bit crazy.
Keeping-
1- Noble Focus Mystique---ex sound--really enjoy these,
2- Camp Fire Audio Orbit- excellent comfort and unique sound--mids are way overtuned but IF you are an EQ tweeker it can be molded into some really special sounding tws---not for everyone but it works for me--and the fit and comfort is the best I have ever experienced which is the most important thing to me,
3- FiiO FW5- nice fit and I like the sound--a nice feature is the FiiO ap can give you balance control---which I like
Returned-
4- Technics AZ 60---just could not get a good seal- but I really liked the sound--and a new version is going to be available soon
5- B&O EQ--actually really liked these--but not as much as the top 3
6-KEF mu3--nice sound but nothing special--top 3 are way better

Still want to get the B&W Pi7--version 1 is $ 170 used on amazon and also want Final 8000---these will have to wait a bit .WAY too many incredible products available today and newer and " better" on the way-----😜
Hey
In terms of the Orbit and EQ which one has better bass?
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 3:50 PM Post #52,017 of 62,777
On another topic, does it make sense to take an IEM/headphone which supports aptx Adaptive, Lossless and/or LDAC, but my smartphone won't be able to take advantage of the higher-end codecs (not supported)? Will I loose a lot from their sound when using only aptx or aac? E.g. currently I have the Sennheiser MTW3 and wondering if I'm missing a lot since I can only use aptx and not Adaptive.
A bluetooth dongle can plug into USB (or your phone if USB-c with adapter) and transmit at Aptx Adaptive and other formats, until you upgrade your phone. Now, whether you'll actually carry it and plug it in and use it is a different issue, as we always carry a phone, but not always a dongle (and adapter).
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 5:15 PM Post #52,019 of 62,777
Also, the Bose QCII's are still my favorite earbuds that I've used... probably ever. Not for sound quality specifically, but just for how good the ANC is together with an energetic but still non-fatiguing sound that still delivers on decent clarity and good bass. Perfect pair for being out and about imo, and the music almost always sounds the way I expect it to, and it's somewhat flattering towards songs with poor recording quality as well. Mostly everything sounds OK to really good, even if you might not be blown away.

But I'm also going to say that it's probably one of the most buggy earbuds I've had. Seriously having major issues with the fact that almost every time I'm pulling them out of the case one earbud is not recognizing that I put it in my ear so I have to try several times. Sometimes I put both of the buds back, switch and try to pick the other earbud out first, and then it's the other earbud that it's not recognizing that I've put in my ears.
I've also had some weird bugs lately where it doesn't actually activate ANC properly, and sometimes I usually don't notice it at first, but then I'm like "how the **** am I hearing so much of my surroundings?" it's like a bug where the ambient mode isn't turned on, but the ANC isn't either.
Then recently I've gotten a few times where the sound quality just sounds... "off", like it's not right. Hard to pinpoint specifically, it just doesn't sound the way it should, a bit less bass, a bit tinny and hollow, and those times the app won't recognize that they're connected to the phone. Then when I tried listening later on it sounded the way it should, and that time the app instantly recognized them.

I think some of this might be due to the sensors they're using for adaptive ANC, adaptive sound, in-ear sensors etc, because they easily get gunked up with wax and skin (yeah it's gross, and I do try to make sure my ears are clean but as some of you know... wax happens regardless), and stop doing what they're supposed to do.
But i'm not sure really, I don't think you should need to clean your earbuds every other day unless a specific need occurs, just to keep them functioning.
Experiencing the very same issues! Plus recently I sometimes get an annoying 'crinkling' sound on rare occasions that actually reminds me of water running out of my ears ... it feels like some weird radio static ... but not always, no way to replicate.
Ever since I was made aware that there is an extra tip set and I got the XXL in now, these are a perfect and comfortable fit! But those irregularities make me not want to take them out if I want to go somewhere without the case, which is needed for any kind of reset action.

Now, where is that update they kept talking about for higher res BT codecs?
 
Apr 5, 2023 at 5:18 PM Post #52,020 of 62,777
With Samsung S23, like I am with Z Fold4, I feel much more disappointed that most eastern IEM's Qualcomm integrators never try to implement seriously LDAC as, since BT 5.x, it's clearly the most available lossless codec on the market and it's a very stable in real life. Some huge brands like Sony and Technics manage to handle LDAC for TWS...
Aptx Lossless is actually almost unavailable and maybe still a rather more limited codec than LDAC .. all other codecs on the market can't handle an old lossless CD sound quality, which is quite frustrating.
On the S23 Ultra I find LDAC performance ratherinconsistent. At home it works quite well but occasionally crackles especially when near other BT devices, and is sometimes unusable on my commute (AAC is worse as the highs often distort). It also always defaults to adaptive bitrate and you can hear the bitrate changes intermittently. I don't always hear the difference between the bitrates, but the transition seems to be where the compression is quite audible. Samsung Scalable Codec has a similar issue especially on older devices like the Note 9 (I do not recommend Galaxy Buds series for it!), but the newer iteration Samsung Seamless Codec works quite well on the Buds 2 Pro with the S23 Ultra.
 

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