[Bhelpoori]

The title of their own paper on LC3plus is "High Resolution via Bluetooth A2DP". It is BT and DECT and some other non-BT in addition. I don't think it is accurate saying LC3 is BT and LC3+ is not.

This quote would make no sense...
"LC3plus is the standardized solution to provide the quality of high-resolution music streaming services also over wireless accessories – facilitating independence from proprietary, vendor-specific technologies."

If they are not talking Qualcomm and Apple here and they mean to free us from non-BT vendor specific stuff I don't know what that would be. Please fill us in.

also..."bring high-transparency audio streaming to high-resolution wireless accessories such as headsets or loudspeakers. LC3plus is the only open-standard audio codec for high-resolution wireless headsets and high-quality gaming headsets."
Meaning these wireless devices mentioned here are not BT?? Think a majority of wireless and gaming headsets are BT, no??

Seems Plus is higher bit rate and considered Hi-Res and LC3 is lower bit rate and not as good. Not sure how they are the same. Not by how Fraunhofer are talking. They also have some balls with LC3 being free and you need to pay a license fee for plus. You would be paying for nothing if they were the same.

Correct on the paper and the wireless part but the licensing situation has changed since then. Anyone with a Bluetooth SIG license to use Bluetooth audio can have LC3 up to 96/24. One of the reasons for that is that to maintain compatibility since LC3+ is effectively a different codec in that it needs different encode and decode, and the Bluetooth SIG didn’t want to see needless codec compatibility issues.

What is shown by this paper is that LC3 can be used with Bluetooth Classic aka A2DP rather than just LE Audio, although I don’t think that is standardised just yet, though haven’t checked for a while. It also shows that the biggest advantage of + is less latency, but that is constrained by how the Bluetooth radio works anyways.

LC3 isn’t free, it just has its cost included as part of the Bluetooth license.

For TWS, the biggest improvement is a standardised way for a TWS to work, rather than the mess of Bluetooth Classic today, and the ability to have high quality mic and audio at the same time, which is impossible under Classic. LC3 is a relatively minor part of the change, actually.

 

[LastFantasy]

Correct on the paper and the wireless part but the licensing situation has changed since then. Anyone with a Bluetooth SIG license to use Bluetooth audio can have LC3 up to 96/24. One of the reasons for that is that to maintain compatibility since LC3+ is effectively a different codec in that it needs different encode and decode, and the Bluetooth SIG didn’t want to see needless codec compatibility issues.

What is shown by this paper is that LC3 can be used with Bluetooth Classic aka A2DP rather than just LE Audio, although I don’t think that is standardised just yet, though haven’t checked for a while. It also shows that the biggest advantage of + is less latency, but that is constrained by how the Bluetooth radio works anyways.

LC3 isn’t free, it just has its cost included as part of the Bluetooth license.

For TWS, the biggest improvement is a standardised way for a TWS to work, rather than the mess of Bluetooth Classic today, and the ability to have high quality mic and audio at the same time, which is impossible under Classic. LC3 is a relatively minor part of the change, actually.

When looking at the use case of LC3plus, B&O's Beosound Level and Beolab 28, wireless stereo speakers that caught my eye, are BT 5.0 with Wi-Fi transmission, and it is said that they used LC3plus high-resolution codec for stereo pairing.

The above case is probably the non-BT using LC3plus.

The LC3 found in the beta firmware of Apple AirPods Max a while ago was found to be only for HFP(Hands-Free profile) as a result of testing, which is the same as mentioned in Fraunhofer's LC3 description.
(https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/lc3.html)

If my understanding is correct, since LC3 is a standard codec included as a specification for LE Audio by the Bluetooth SIG, it can be found on hardware supporting LE Audio of BT 5.2 or higher in the future.

LC3plus is Fraunhofer's proprietary codec and has been developed for use in the A2DP profile, so it can be found on non-LE Audio devices (including non-BT). Of course, the expensive license price is a bonus.

 

[Redcarmoose]

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/tinhifi-tin-buds-3.964073/post-17060416
Slight first impressions.

Well, they just came in last night. Funny I was on the lap-top and clicked to check and they showed up as a BT item. With-in 2 seconds they were on and providing music. I almost never read instructions, so I guess they go on when taken out of case? I then went about 38 feet to the bathroom behind a brick wall and they worked with-out fault. I then left the room with the laptop (MacBook Air) on the bed and tried to go down stairs. They started to give out as I was (53 feet away & behind two walls) changing floors, halfway down the stairway.

They sound great and not like a single DD at all. In fact that was my amazement; how the bass (when in a song) was well spaced out into the sound-stage. This is a feature here with instrument placement, that I don't have (exactly hear) with any other headphones. The TINHIFI Tin Buds 3 don't have quite the authority (of wired with a) DAP sound, but entertain, none the less. I went to the 2nd satellite kitchen upstairs next to the bedroom............and they were one-wall away still with a perfect signal. I then had dinner (behind a brick-wall) with them in my ears. First time I have ever had a meal with headphones on. It was great. Sorry, I'm not really a BT expert, but I do have a pair of Apple AirPods (2nd generation), and obviously way better than that. I will have a review in a week.

 

[Bhelpoori]

When looking at the use case of LC3plus, B&O's Beosound Level and Beolab 28, wireless stereo speakers that caught my eye, are BT 5.0 with Wi-Fi transmission, and it is said that they used LC3plus high-resolution codec for stereo pairing.

The above case is probably the non-BT using LC3plus.

yes, this is a good use case. LE Audio‘s original use case was for hearing aids and that’s a great use case for LC3+ today too. Non BT gaming headsets would be another, since the latency can be really low.

The LC3 found in the beta firmware of Apple AirPods Max a while ago was found to be only for HFP(Hands-Free profile) as a result of testing, which is the same as mentioned in Fraunhofer's LC3 description.
(https://www.iis.fraunhofer.de/en/ff/amm/communication/lc3.html)

HFP and A2DP are different profiles of Bluetooth audio (I won’t bore you with the history) and definitely not the same as the paper. HFP is mono too…at least in the standard.

If my understanding is correct, since LC3 is a standard codec included as a specification for LE Audio by the Bluetooth SIG, it can be found on hardware supporting LE Audio of BT 5.2 or higher in the future.

5.3+ is what you want. 5.2 does work but not as efficiently for the TWS use case. However, remember that the version of Bluetooth does not indicate support for LE-Audio

LC3plus is Fraunhofer's proprietary codec and has been developed for use in the A2DP profile, so it can be found on non-LE Audio devices (including non-BT). Of course, the expensive license price is a bonus.

LC3Plus is independent of framework and radio so whilst it was demoed with A2DP it can be used anywhere. It wasn’t developed for A2DP, it’s just easy to demo that way. It really is quite neat… I don’t think the licensing cost is significant or ’expensive’ however. OTOH, today, I don’t see any reason to put LC3Plus in a Bluetooth device today but I’m coming from the engineering side.

 

[Tenlow]

A pretty detailed Free Byrd review that is actually very true to life and resembles my feelings pretty accurately. It also mentiones (initial) fit issues btw.

It also mentiones the low latency mode for gaming, something I left out as I didn't/ don't care for it that much.

https://www.mmorpg.com/hardware-rev...-first-tws-earbuds-review-2000125577?amp=true

 

[Artmuzz]

It's called 'speak to chat'.

I disabled it on mine through the sony app fine.

I don’t know how I missed this it was staring at me in the face in the app. Thanks.

 

[subguy812]

A pretty detailed Free Byrd review that is actually very true to life and resembles my feelings pretty accurately. It also mentiones (initial) fit issues btw.

It also mentiones the low latency mode for gaming, something I left out as I didn't/ don't care for it that much.

https://www.mmorpg.com/hardware-rev...-first-tws-earbuds-review-2000125577?amp=true

How are they comparing to your EX?

Kind of asking because I just returned from vacation and picked up the Sony XM4 because I wanted to hear what God-tier ANC was like for the flight.

After owning the EX, XM4, TW3 and others, I have to say it is difficult to hold a candle to the sound quality of the EX.

The Sony's sound good, and their ANC is great, I missed multi-point or the EX though on the flight. My S22 Ultra has no storage card, so I used one of my DAPs to listen to, while in air, and I couldn't use the Sony app and the DAP at the same time. The DAP is not open Android so I couldn't download the app on the DAP

 

[J_3000]

My EX are f i n a l l y shipped by Amazon.de. Took about two months

 

[clerkpalmer]

You don’t need Wifi bandwidth to for lossless: it takes too much power, is too expensive and doesn’t have the audio framework of LE Audio . Bluetooth LE is quite sufficient.

Also there is widespread confusion about LC3 and the plus version. For Bluetooth they are the same: standard LC3 is capable of 96/24. LC3Plus is aimed at other non Bluetooth markets.

However, nothing comes for free, if you want 96/24 then you will use more battery power but much less than LDAC and lose some other functionality.

Happy to answer other LE Audio questions…

I didn’t say you needed Wi-Fi for lossless. What I said was there is speculation that apple may implement a lossless protocol using airplay/Wi-Fi. I guess we will see how apple approaches the problem. I don’t see them adopting LC3 or the plus version anytime soon

 

[clerkpalmer]

So, Free Byrd owners, how iffy is the fit? I really want to pull the trigger but I often have issues with fit with only the best designed TWS usually staying put. I don't need to go running with them but I do want to move around with them. Am I likely to be disappointed?

 

[erockg]

So, Free Byrd owners, how iffy is the fit? I really want to pull the trigger but I often have issues with fit with only the best designed TWS usually staying put. I don't need to go running with them but I do want to move around with them. Am I likely to be disappointed?

Not good over here. They'd fly out of my ears if I ran with them. Everything else about them is awesome. Going to try other tips and see if that helps, but not feeling lucky yet. I've had issues with this type of shell before. Not surprising the Free Byrd aren't sitting well. That said, my Noble Fokus H-ANC are out for delivery!

 

[clerkpalmer]

Not good over here. They'd fly out of my ears if I ran with them. Everything else about them is awesome. Going to try other tips and see if that helps, but not feeling lucky yet. I've had issues with this type of shell before. Not surprising the Free Byrd aren't sitting well. That said, my Noble Fokus H-ANC are out for delivery!

Speaking of fit I never did get the Fokus pro to sit well. The nozzles are wide. Interested in your impressions. I think I need to pass on the free Byrd. Guessing not gonna work.

 

[erockg]

Speaking of fit I never did get the Fokus pro to sit well. The nozzles are wide. Interested in your impressions. I think I need to pass on the free Byrd. Guessing not gonna work.

I think if the Free Byrd came down in price, the fit would be more palpable. Same here on the Fokus Pro. They tend to slide out no matter what I do. The shell of the Creative Outlier Pro is the same as the Fokus H-ANC and they fit me PERFECT. Excited to listen them. Ohhh, speak of the devil. FedEx has arrived!

 

[clerkpalmer]

I think if the Free Byrd came down in price, the fit would be more palpable. Same here on the Fokus Pro. They tend to slide out no matter what I do. The shell of the Creative Outlier Pro is the same as the Fokus H-ANC and they fit me PERFECT. Excited to listen them. Ohhh, speak of the devil. FedEx has arrived!

No pressure but I will refresh every 30 seconds until your impressions are posted.

 

[bladefd]

Not good over here. They'd fly out of my ears if I ran with them. Everything else about them is awesome. Going to try other tips and see if that helps, but not feeling lucky yet. I've had issues with this type of shell before. Not surprising the Free Byrd aren't sitting well. That said, my Noble Fokus H-ANC are out for delivery!

I can't wait for your take on the H-ANC. I have had my eyes on them for a couple weeks (just not purple! Waiting for the blue)