Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?
Apr 26, 2020 at 2:06 PM Post #21,526 of 62,659
Hey, wondering if you (or anyone else :)) did / could do a direct comparison between the MTWs (ideally MTW2s) and the Nuarl N6 Pro? I'm curious mainly about SQ, trying to understand which is the best sounding TWS right now and if we already got to the point where TWS can compete with mid range IEMs like the VSonic GR07 and similar...
I can do mor of a comparison of the 2, but for now i'll just say if SQ is your top priority and you don't have a similar desire for ANC, transparency mode etc, then the Nuarls would be the way to go. They're nearly half the price of the MTW2. They have a sound that imo does rival mid priced iems, i haven't heard the VSonics you mentioned FWIW. Before i got the mtw2 i considered getting rid of the nuarls but having them both makes for a really solid rotation with everything else i have. Edit, i have spent a lot of time with both of these, and just took a few mins listening to different tracks and i think at Vladzakhar summed it up pretty well, i have similar thoughts. I like the SQ of the MTW2 mor, but not by much. I don't know what his EQ settings are for the MTW2, but i agree. Both are great at instrument placement, soundstage a tad better on the MTW, and both are king for detail and retrieval. one other thing i have to add that works in the nuarl's favor for me is that this sound they have is default. i had to eq the MTW2 for a sound i like out of them.
 
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Apr 26, 2020 at 2:31 PM Post #21,527 of 62,659
I can do mor of a comparison of the 2, but for now i'll just say if SQ is your top priority and you don't have a similar desire for ANC, transparency mode etc, then the Nuarls would be the way to go. They're nearly half the price of the MTW2. They have a sound that imo does rival mid priced iems, i haven't heard the VSonics you mentioned FWIW. Before i got the mtw2 i considered getting rid of the nuarls but having them both makes for a really solid rotation with everything else i have. Edit, i have spent a lot of time with both of these, and just took a few mins listening to different tracks and i think at Vladzakhar summed it up pretty well, i have similar thoughts. I like the SQ of the MTW2 mor, but not by much. I don't know what his EQ settings are for the MTW2, but i agree. Both are great at instrument placement, soundstage a tad better on the MTW, and both are king for detail and retrieval. one other thing i have to add that works in the nuarl's favor for me is that this sound they have is default. i had to eq the MTW2 for a sound i like out of them.
what are your eq settings in the mtw2?
 
Apr 26, 2020 at 2:51 PM Post #21,528 of 62,659
So, what are the differences between the Mifo 07 and the N6 Pro signature-wise? I'm curious as I am quite interested in the Nuarls and you say that the Mifos can compete.
My mifo07 is the all BA one so the bass is more of a tight and punchy kinda lean type of bass. I was so used to DD+BA IEM so at first I tried to compensate by turning up the volume but it also introduced me to a fatal flaw on the mifo07 which the BA drivers will start to have crackle when the bass drop. The bass on the N6 is more DD type of bass but it is not the boomy kind of bass, but more tight and punchy while still have those sweet rumble. Bass guitar has that heft to it so you can "feel" it instead of just it being there.

The mid is the main focus on the mifo07, when I first listened to mine, the mid was straight kinda in your face type. The mid is thick but not as thick as Shure's mid and the detail is amazing, the best I've heard so far in TWS. The N6 also has forward mid, but not as much as mifo07 and it is not as thick too. Still it has nice balance being not overly thick nor thin imho. Details is also very good.

Both has very good treble, but I have to give it to the N6 here as it is just a bit better decay especially on cymbals. Both has very good detail.

Since the mifo07 has leaner bass, it can be classified as being brighter sounding, while the N6 is more controlled fun sounding.

Here is the volume difference between the two:
Screenshot_20200426-114408_Media and devices.jpg
The mifo07 actually start to crackle at that level. No dolby atmost nor EQ.

PS: mifo07 has the smallest metal case out there even smaller/similar than airpods and is my go to TWS when I was laying on the bed as it is very low profile and has decent microphone for calling.
 
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Apr 26, 2020 at 2:54 PM Post #21,529 of 62,659
at TMA6 how are you liking the XM3's?

Hey man, yeah I’ve been swamped with work so haven’t had the time to churn out a full review, but had a little time today so here goes:

I know a bunch of people on here don’t love the sq of the xm3s, and after about a week and a half of listening I agree they are not perfect, but to my ears they’re probably my second favorite sounding TWS outside of the N6 Pros right now. I’ll get into it in some detail, for me the timbre is pretty great, much better than expected. The overall usability is also excellent, and for some reason they fit my ears real nicely, though I know this is not the case for everyone so your mileage may vary. Anyway here’s my breakdown.

Sound quality: Just as a disclaimer, all my sound impressions were done with ANC turned on because I find the sound better with it on than off. Overall I’d describe the sound quality of the xm3s as forward and crisp, but smooth. It’s got an excellent tonal balance and is very versatile. Plays well with pretty much everything I listened to. It’s not audiophile grade but it definitely has above average detail retrieval for a TWS. I’m very happy with them particularly since the features work so well, and it has one of the best EQs that I’ve come across, period.

Bass: The bass lacks a little detail but it’s pretty damn clean and has good extension and weight, without being overpowering. There’s no distortion, and bloat is very minimal. It’s actually got a great level of punchiness and richness, but it’s not as enveloping as the MTW2s or the L2Ps. It’s definitely fast though and and gives music a great energy. In many ways it’s similar to the bass on the original MW07s. Compared with the N6Ps the xm3s bass has more power and depth, but the N6P have much more detail and air. Overall the bass is really nice, unoffensive, and clean.

Mids: The mids are nice and smooth, a little forward, and there’s some really nice instrument and vocal detail. The MTW2s have slightly more detailed vocals, but it’s pretty marginal, and the xm3s have better instrument representation and tonality for me. The timbre is pretty spot on, not as natural and realistic as the N6Ps but better than other mid forward TWS like the APPs or MTW2s. There’s also a nice sense of depth and detail, giving the presentation some fullness, however some of the more finite qualities of certain instruments, such as the attack of a violin string or the pressure build up in a trumpet blare, are a bit smoothed out, probably to orient to a more base-line consumer sound. In the end though, the mids are in many ways where these things shine, with excellent tonality and slightly forward presentation.

Highs: The highs are not perfect, but pretty solid. The mid highs are excellent. Some of my favorites on any TWS. They manage an almost perfect balance between being clean and crisp and up front, without ever becoming harsh. The very top end though is a little dropped off. It’s definitely there but you sometimes have to try to listen for it instead of it just effortlessly being presented to you. Cymbals are not quite where I want them to be, they’ve got good attack and decay, but still have a bit of mushiness sometimes. This is just a persistent problem on TWS in my opinion, but these are not nearly as offensive in this regard as the APPs. I still think the N6Ps are just way better than anything else out there for highs. While not quite as good as the N6Ps, the highs on the Tevis are also a bit cleaner and realistic than the xm3s, but the xm3s are more full, rich and warm sounding overall.

Soundstage and Imaging: When comparing the xm3s to the N6Ps, the N6Ps have a wider soundstage and are the clear winners for imaging - but really the N6Ps have better imaging than some wired iems that I’ve heard. The Tevis and L2Ps are also slightly wider. That being said, the stage on the xm3s is not terrible. It’s got a good width to it, but since the mid-bass, mids, and mid highs are a bit forward sometimes the music can feel a bit closed in on certain busy tracks. I do sometimes notice certain things out in the distance though and the instrument separation is good enough that it never really feels congested. Instrument separation was better on the MTW2s overall, but the actual stage of the MTW2s was much more in my head than on the xm3s.
The imaging on the xm3s is pretty good, and does provide distinct spaces for instruments, but it’s not as logical as the N6Ps. The imaging is better on the xm3s than the L2Ps though, which can get a bit disjointed. All in all I’d say the xm3s have enough technical ability in this department to prevent the sound from being clustered or sounding disorganized. I’d say average soundstage and above average imaging.

All in all, the xm3s are a bit of a jack of all trades master of none for sound quality. But they do everything pretty well, and that’s actually kind of impressive in its own right. They work well for pretty much every genre of music and are ridiculously well balanced. I’d say the stand out feature is the timbre, it’s just a nice tonality that gives a good vibrancy to the music without being artificial. The mid highs are also fantastic, it’s hard to strike that balance between clarity and harshness and the xm3s do just that. I’m generally just impressed with how these sound. They’re not up to par with the N6Ps, but not much in the TWS space is at the moment in my opinion and these have some great extra features that are missing on the N6Ps, which I will discuss more below.

Look/Fit: This is a subjective category. I think they’re a bit bulky but look pretty decent and don’t stick out much which is nice. The fit is definitely an issue for some but not for me for the most part. They definitely sometimes need some readjustment after an hour of listening or so, but I find them pretty comfortable. Not ideal for working out as they bobble around a bit in the ear.

Extra Features: These are loaded with features and they all work great. The ANC is the best that I’ve tried so far. They do an excellent job cancelling out low rumbles and even do a good job on some higher frequencies. The one issue is that you need a good seal otherwise the ANC does not work as well. These also have a mode where you can use some of the internal ANC mics while also cancelling out wind noise and it works like a charm. The ANC is not quite as effective in this mode but there’s no wind noise which has been a real issue when using other ANC buds. Ambient mode is also great and you can customize how much to let in in the app. It works very well though there is a slight amplification effect. The app is a little glitchy sometimes but overall works well and the EQ is just fantastic. You can completely change how these things sound in the EQ settings but they never change to the point of sounding crappy. A good example is that even if you raise the bass level super high it never becomes distorted. Also can improve clarity in the highs with EQ without changing overall tonality. The only annoyance is that you can’t have volume controls on the buds while also controlling ANC and playback from the buds. You have to swap one of those sets of controls out if you want volume controls. I hope they can somehow fix this at some point but I doubt it. Another thing is the lack of water resistance, but I usually don’t expose my TWS to water. Overall though, one of the best feature sets I’ve seen on a TWS.

Battery: Battery is decent and lasts about 6 hours with ANC on, which is much better than the 4.5 hours I got with the MTW2s. With it off I got around 7.5 hours, but I like the sound better when it’s on. The only thing is if you want to use the DSEE HX function (have to use it without EQ), then the battery drains significantly and only lasts around 3.5 hours. I do think this function improves the highs and stage slightly but I’ve often turned it off bc of battery drain.

Case: The case is nice and premium though on the large side. Small thing but I love the hinge, it’s as close to the APPs case hinge as I’ve tried in terms of usability. Also the magnets are excellent and the buds are really easy to take in and out of the case.

Microphone/calls: Call quality has been surprisingly solid for me, particularly indoors where people can’t even tell I’m wearing a headset. I also took a call on a walk yesterday and it was super windy and the person on the other side could still hear me clearly without having to yell, though could also hear the wind in the background. Overall pretty usable to be honest, but haven’t had much of a chance to test this out too much given that nyc is on lockdown.

Connectivity: Connectivity has been fantastic with my phone, though not as great with my windows computer. They have gotten better over time with the computer though for some reason, but still stutters sometimes.

Conclusion: Overall, the xm3s are some of my favorite TWS that Ive used so far. The sound is really nice and balanced, and it’s probably the most versatile set of TWS I own. Plays every genre I throw at it at least reasonably well. Also the ANC is really great. Once you get a good seal, they’re just better than any other ANC bud I’ve tried - including the APP, MW07+, MTW2s, and Ausounds Hybrid. Really great features and very good sound make this a top choice for me, though I know some on this thread are not as high on them as I am. Sound is definitely subjective and these are my opinions, absolutely not saying that anyone else is wrong, just going off what my ears are telling me.

————————————————————

In other news, while listening and doing comparisons for the xm3s, I concluded the N6Ps are still as close to a wired set of IEMs that I’ve heard to date. They just sound fantastic. I actually have the Thieaudio Legacy 3s coming tomorrow so I’m excited to see how the N6Ps stack up. Might do a quick comparison of the two.

Also, I’ve done a bunch of true wireless reviews at this point now so I might congregate them somewhere, like on a website, if people would be interested. Might also do a top ten list here soon.
 
Apr 26, 2020 at 3:00 PM Post #21,530 of 62,659
Apr 26, 2020 at 3:17 PM Post #21,531 of 62,659
In other news, while listening and doing comparisons for the xm3s, I concluded the N6Ps are still as close to a wired set of IEMs that I’ve heard to date. They just sound fantastic. I actually have the Thieaudio Legacy 3s coming tomorrow so I’m excited to see how the N6Ps stack up. Might do a quick comparison of the two.

Also, I’ve done a bunch of true wireless reviews at this point now so I might congregate them somewhere, like on a website, if people would be interested. Might also do a top ten list here soon.

Yeah couldn't agree more.
 
Apr 26, 2020 at 5:29 PM Post #21,533 of 62,659
If you guys think the n6 pro sound good, need to try mavin air xr, these little buds sound great, very similar to n6, but has sparkle high compared to n6, i have both and keep reaching for the mavin more

Hmmmmmmmm. N6 pro was on my list to try (in the future) but now...

I do go for the Air-XR over the L2P's, which are good once EQ'ed.
 
Apr 26, 2020 at 9:14 PM Post #21,535 of 62,659
Conclusion: Overall, the xm3s are some of my favorite TWS that Ive used so far. The sound is really nice and balanced, and it’s probably the most versatile set of TWS I own. Plays every genre I throw at it at least reasonably well. Also the ANC is really great. Once you get a good seal, they’re just better than any other ANC bud I’ve tried - including the APP, MW07+, MTW2s, and Ausounds Hybrid. Really great features and very good sound make this a top choice for me, though I know some on this thread are not as high on them as I am. Sound is definitely subjective and these are my opinions, absolutely not saying that anyone else is wrong, just going off what my ears are telling me.
Great write-up, I agree with everything you said. I guess there are probably better sounding buds, bud I needed ANC, Ambient Sound and good teleconferencing and I dd not want to spend very much, given that all that will probably be the standard feature set soon. I got mine refurbished for $100 plus another $10 for some spinfits.
 
Apr 27, 2020 at 1:04 AM Post #21,536 of 62,659
On these days i'm trying the Soundcore Liberty 2 Pro ( aka L2P), they are surprisingly good. Arrived, kept on charge, upgraded firmware, did a factory reset then i started to use them since a week now. I don't mess with the EQ, i'm talking about sound out-of-the-box)

The case is meh, this "slide" opening seems unreliable especially if you keep them in the pants pocket, but the fit, confort and the soundstage are really good. Tons of adapters too on bundle, which is a plus.

Also BT connection seems solid ( i use them on both PC and android smartphone). Right now on my country are on sale at 99 bucks. Definitely a great deal.

But Sennheiser MTW v1 & v2 soundstage is still unbeatable IMO. My TOP 3 IEM earbuds right, in terms of pure SOUND quality now is:

1- MTW v2 (to me, almost perfect, but pricey..........299)
2- Master & Dynamic MW07+ ( too pricey, & no touch controls, average passive isolation.........299 )
3- Soundcore L2P. ( at 99 bucks are a must tho, they sound slighly less detailed, but more punchy sound overall than MW07+ )

Hope this helps, my 2 cents.

Does the MTW v2 sound $200 better than the soundcore ?
 
Apr 27, 2020 at 1:08 AM Post #21,537 of 62,659
I burned my Amazon credit on a 2nd pair of the Backbeat pro 5100. I needed great call quality, and i knew from having a pair last Fall that these had been the best for that out of all the models i've tried. These weren't worth the full MSRP then, and they definitely aren't now, but for free thanks to a gift card i won at work, i'd say they're worth it haha. Some others i have aren't bad for calls, but these take the cake. just wish i could eq the sound a bit for music, but for some rock, metal, hipHop and some electronic they do well.
i've been going back and forth on keeping the MTW2, is a slight reduction in SQ preference vs the 1st gen MTW worth keeping them for their better battery life, slightly better fit and ANC? IN the end for me, it is. yeah there are going to be some new models with ANC thanks to the new QC chips they'll arrive with, but will i like the over all sound of any of them as much as i like the MTW2? Who knows. i'd say if you don't have a use case for ANC, then among many others, the 1st gen MTW at less than $200 wouldn't be a bad way to go. That's not to say i don't like the 2nd gen's SQ, i just wish i could add a little mor pop to snares etc. and bring the mids down juuust a touch.
at TMA6 how are you liking the XM3's?

Thanks for the MTW 1 vs 2 thoughts - I also like the MTW. For me sound quality is the #1 priority, with battery life #2, transparency #3, and ANC #4. So I've been pretty happy with the MTW, and just posted a review the other day Momentum True Wireless Review because I do think their sound + transparency mode and in-app EQ for $199 is pretty good.

But, I do wish they had better battery life - I have two pairs of MTW and keep one charged up all the time, so if the MTW charging case that I have in my pocket drains down to zero then I have one to fall back to. l have one MTW that automatically connects to my iPhone when I take them out of the case for a call. The spare set automatically connects to my MacBook when I put them in my ears, and I keep that pair plugged into my MacBook USB to stay charged up.

I was thinking about MTW2 for the extra battery life and ANC, but not at the expense of sound quality. Therefore, I am also considering the N6 Pro or Sony 1000XM3. So, I am interested to read all of the XM3 reviews now - I'm not sure their transparency mode and ANC are as important as the N6 Pro's improved sound, but I do like to be able to use my buds when I am outside walking the dog and need to hear ambient noise.
 
Apr 27, 2020 at 1:50 AM Post #21,538 of 62,659
@Spidermanxd I don't know if you like foam tips (I prefer them) but if you do there are a few that I found that work with the Air-XR.

My favorite on them is the 'ball style' 6.5mm TS400 ones. With this setup I don't even press them into my ear, just position it to cover/seal the ear opening. I use it with a 5mm I.D. x 1.5mm thick o-ring as a spacer. The foam seats against my tragus and ear opening, while pushing the ear piece far enough back to contact the anti helix. Super comfortable and pretty stable.

11193667.jpg



The other option is these:
With the delay on getting those foam tips I started poking around Amazon & eBay. I ended up coming across more large bore foam tips, listed for Jaybird BT earphones. They have a 5.4mm bore and are listed to fit 5.5-7.0mm diameter earphones. They fit on my 7.15mm Mavin Air-XR with no problem (with effort I managed to fit a 4.9mm bore T400, but high chance of damaging them).

https://smile.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B0763J99H4/
https://www.ebay.com/itm/6-pair-Jay...-jaybird-freedom-2-ear-tips-foam/263638958081

I couldn't find them on AE except as M550/M550S from Misodiko or T55 from Moondrop.

s-l400.png

M550_M550S sizing.jpg

Edit, pic on my Mavin Air-XR:
10582846.jpg
 
Apr 27, 2020 at 2:33 AM Post #21,539 of 62,659
what are your eq settings in the mtw2?
still fine tuning it, but at the moment, from center, a half inch down and all the way to the right. That's what i keep coming back to.
 
Apr 27, 2020 at 2:33 AM Post #21,540 of 62,659
@Spidermanxd I don't know if you like foam tips (I prefer them) but if you do there are a few that I found that work with the Air-XR.

My favorite on them is the 'ball style' 6.5mm TS400 ones. With this setup I don't even press them into my ear, just position it to cover/seal the ear opening. I use it with a 5mm I.D. x 1.5mm thick o-ring as a spacer. The foam seats against my tragus and ear opening, while pushing the ear piece far enough back to contact the anti helix. Super comfortable and pretty stable.

11193667.jpg



The other option is these:
Thanks I will give it a try
 

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