[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by lucky /img/forum/go_quote.gif ^ I agree completely with the four posters above me.

Glad we can agree on something.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenzip /img/forum/go_quote.gif Saying that a subjective opinion can ever be wrong or invalid, is, in my opinion, a lot less intellectually sound than everything you said. Uninformed, yes, that's a definite possibility. But intelligent people can change their opinions. It doesn't matter if everyone else on the planet says that the headphones you are using are crap, if you enjoy them, that's all that matters. You enjoying them is not invalidated by the fact that they are crap to everyone else. And vice-versa.

I don't disagree with this at all, which I've said repeatedly, if not in this thread, in others. People do change their opinions, which is part of growing, which I hope to continue to do. I dislike it when folks state there is nothing but opinion, and that's all that matters. Sure, in your own home with your own music, that is all that matters, but the topic of this thread is whether or not something better (I'm assuming that means in sound quality, build, etc.) exists, and the answer to that, when looking at the op's original list of headphones, is yes it does. The collective subjective experience, and even objective facts (materials, specs, etc) says is does. To say is it only up to individual opinion is part of a black vs. white debate in which neither side ends up being right, and too much of that has been going on in this thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Epicfailman /img/forum/go_quote.gif You do realize when you called everyone here debating arrogant and then proceeded to write a post using the most colorful and intelligent words that you could, that you made yourself look arrogant, don't you? Keep in mind, I am not making any claim that you are arrogant, but rather that you most certainly gave off an air of the very arrogance that you just finished condemning by that post. You do have a fair point, but I suggest if you are offended by out thread that you should just leave rather than getting yourself involved.

I may use colorful, intelligent words, but that's because I'm old, frustrated, and genuinely saddened by this thread. That's what old, frustrated, sad, intelligent people sometimes do. I don't mean to come off as arrogant, but perhaps I do. I'm wildly frustrated by the level of discourse in this and other threads. People are arguing over things they haven't even experienced (some, certainly not all posting in this thread). It's like a group of people debating about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. It makes no sense (again, this is not everyone posting here, but too many to ignore). Other people are going on about subjective vs objective and there are good points to be made on both sides, but that's just it: You can't swing too far one way or the other without making your own argument wrong. It's foolish and arrogant to do so, and it's frustrating to see time and time again.

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif This has got to be the most obliviously hypocritical post I have ever read on head-fi, ever.

How hypocritical? I've said nothing I don't believe, maybe in words that were too harsh, but how is that hypocritical? So I got sucked in to voicing my anger after witnessing the same old arguments by people (some, not all) who have little to no actual knowledge of the points they're trying to make. My bad. I'm human and value this community too much to not let the nonsense get to me from time to time. If you want to point out that I don't have to read this thread or post at all, you'd be right, but that's why too many people who have been here longer than I stop posting all together. If folks who haven't spent 1-5-10-20 years in this hobby want to argue about whether or not amps make a difference or if something better really exists, or if a $2000 headphone they've never heard is anything more than a gimmick, I guess I should let them and be done with it.

 

[donunus]

uhhhm, I hate smart people

hehehe

 

[Nerull]

Lately, especially in the "science" forum, it has been arguing of semantics. Boomana is obviously frustrated at this, as am I. It's just slowly deteriorating into a hotbed of nitpicking and deconstruction to the point of obscurity. Eventually, no points will be valid and those with experience will be disregarded no matter what their opinion. It's cynical and bleak, but given the way things are going, realistic.

It's just disappointing and frustrating to see, given how much Head-Fi taught me when I was a newbie.

~Thomas

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif I don't disagree with this at all, which I've said repeatedly, if not in this thread, in others. People do change their opinions, which is part of growing, which I hope to continue to do. I dislike it when folks state there is nothing but opinion, and that's all that matters. Sure, in your own home with your own music, that is all that matters, but the topic of this thread is whether or not something better (I'm assuming that means in sound quality, build, etc.) exists, and the answer to that, when looking at the op's original list of headphones, is yes it does. The collective subjective experience, and even objective facts (materials, specs, etc) says is does. To say is it only up to individual opinion is part of a black vs. white debate in which neither side ends up being right, and too much of that has been going on in this thread. I may use colorful, intelligent words, but that's because I'm old, frustrated, and genuinely saddened by this thread. That's what old, frustrated, sad, intelligent people sometimes do. I don't mean to come off as arrogant, but perhaps I do. I'm wildly frustrated by the level of discourse in this and other threads. People are arguing over things they haven't even experienced (some, certainly not all posting in this thread). It's like a group of people debating about how many angels can fit on the head of a pin. It makes no sense (again, this is not everyone posting here, but too many to ignore). Other people are going on about subjective vs objective and there are good points to be made on both sides, but that's just it: You can't swing too far one way or the other without making your own argument wrong. It's foolish and arrogant to do so, and it's frustrating to see time and time again. How hypocritical? I've said nothing I don't believe, maybe in words that were too harsh, but how is that hypocritical? So I got sucked in to voicing my anger after witnessing the same old arguments by people (some, not all) who have little to no actual knowledge of the points they're trying to make. My bad. I'm human and value this community too much to not let the nonsense get to me from time to time. If you want to point out that I don't have to read this thread or post at all, you'd be right, but that's why too many people who have been here longer than I stop posting all together. If folks who haven't spent 1-5-10-20 years in this hobby want to argue about whether or not amps make a difference or if something better really exists, or if a $2000 headphone they've never heard is anything more than a gimmick, I guess I should let them and be done with it.

You were being hypocritical by calling everyone arrogant when your entire tone was nothing but arrogant and asinine. It is a perfect example of someone taking their opinion, viewing it as absolute fact, and using that viewpoint to discredit everyone who is approaching a said subject matter differently.

I quite honestly think you are taking things just a bit too serious. The OP didn't come in bashing head-fi or this hobby, he asked a simple question that most people have at some point or another as they grow in this hobby.

 

[tenzip]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif Quote: Originally Posted by tenzip /img/forum/go_quote.gif Saying that a subjective opinion can ever be wrong or invalid, is, in my opinion, a lot less intellectually sound than everything you said. Uninformed, yes, that's a definite possibility. But intelligent people can change their opinions. It doesn't matter if everyone else on the planet says that the headphones you are using are crap, if you enjoy them, that's all that matters. You enjoying them is not invalidated by the fact that they are crap to everyone else. And vice-versa. I don't disagree with this at all, which I've said repeatedly, if not in this thread, in others. People do change their opinions, which is part of growing, which I hope to continue to do. I dislike it when folks state there is nothing but opinion, and that's all that matters. Sure, in your own home with your own music, that is all that matters, but the topic of this thread is whether or not something better (I'm assuming that means in sound quality, build, etc.) exists, and the answer to that, when looking at the op's original list of headphones, is yes it does. The collective subjective experience, and even objective facts (materials, specs, etc) says is does. To say is it only up to individual opinion is part of a black vs. white debate in which neither side ends up being right, and too much of that has been going on in this thread.

Thank you for that. Basically, that's what I've been saying all along in this thread. The OP, well, he kinda got left out of it, and the thread turned into a free-for-all, and it was fun. Then cranky old people have to come and ruin it. Just kidding. I'm not exactly a spring chicken, and I haven't checked your profile, so I have no clue if an age is listed.

I rarely get involved in this type of thing, but it was a lark, something to kill time with. I hope that I give useful, helpful information and opinions in other threads, I always use the 'preview' button to read my posts as if someone else had written it, so I can see if he's an ***hole or not. I probably cancel more posts than I make, because it either doesn't really add value, or it's something I feel others can address more competently. I tend to enjoy being a smart-ass, and a lot of posts have to be violently edited to not come across as such all the time.

Besides, without the occasional troll, we'd all take ourselves much too seriously. But trolls can definitely be a problem when unchecked.

 

[boomana]

Quote:

Originally Posted by number1sixerfan /img/forum/go_quote.gif You were being hypocritical by calling everyone arrogant when your entire tone was nothing but arrogant and asinine.

That is irony, not hypocrisy.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is irony, not hypocrisy.

Irony is derived from an ancient greek word, which has several meanings, hypocrisy being one of them.

 

[grawk]

You've successfully demonstrated that you're only looking to be a jerk, congratulations

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif You've successfully demonstrated that you're only looking to be a jerk, congratulations

She made a smart comment, I made one back...

 

[grawk]

She made a few very biting comments, but they were correct, and you made an ignorant retort just to get the last word in.

 

[number1sixerfan]

Quote:

Originally Posted by grawk /img/forum/go_quote.gif She made a few very biting comments, but they were correct, and you made an ignorant retort just to get the last word in.

Wow, so are you not following or maybe you missed her last words here which had NOTHING to do with my main argument, AT ALL:

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomana /img/forum/go_quote.gif That is irony, not hypocrisy.

It was a smart comment so I answered back with one just like it.

At not point before her smart comment, did I make any smart or rude comment. I am not the one who jumped in the thread insinuating that I am smart and intelligent and that the posters in the thread are arrogant and foolish. You can take up for it as much as you want but I think what happened here is clear as day...

 

[grawk]

I agree, what happened is as clear as day.

 

[rds]

I like what boomana has to say here. Maybe we should put down the pitchforks and welcome a little break from groupthink?

 

[Kernmac]

I think that threads such as this offer little value, but no one forces anyone to participate. If a thread bugs you don't post in it, or even read it, then you will be safe.
I get amused when people jump on these threads calling others trolls, when they themselves are doing exactly what they are accusing people of. boomana (and others), some people have come to the conclusion that "better" is very subjective, not just from the persepective of opinion, but in terms of value. We all agree (most of us anyway) that the science of diminishing returns is very real in this "hobby", I believe that this thread (origionally) started because the OP is questioning whether the pursuit of "better" gear really results in "significantly better" or even "noticibly better" sound enjoyment. I don't necessarily agree with this, however I respect that others have this view. As for it going off track into a subjective/opinion debate centring around "we are all here in the pursuit of "better" no we are not, because "better" is in the eye of the beholder;" it takes two to tango (or in the case of this thread, there are many people dancing). If you don't like the heat in the kitchen, then everyone should know what to do, follow my lead, as this is my last post on this thread.

Enjoy the ride or simply get off.