[Shlonglor]

I am looking to purchase my first headphone amplifiers and I'm a bit lost.
This is the gear I currently have:

Denon AH-D2000
Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5 Pro
Creative Zen
Sennheiser HD280 (replaced by Denons)

I will play music from:
1) M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (optical and analog outs) - home computer
2) Laptop with analog/usb outs
3) Creative Zen (analog out)

I am looking for a solution (or two) that will satisfy all my needs, which are:
1) Home listening, using the M-Audio (either a desktop or portable amp)
2) Work - laptop (portable/desktop)
3) Gym and misc - Zen (portable)

I was thinking about just going with a portable amp that also has a DAC so it would benefit my laptop's lack of a real source. The D2 Boa looks very nice in that regard - has a nice DAC and it's easy to charge up - but I've heard that it has relatively little juice (100mW). That'd probably be ok with me Super.Fis (they're already quite nice with just the Zen), but the Denons might need something more. (I really have no way to know and no one in the Boa thread seems to have tried it with the Denons)

Another option is to get the Zero DAC/Amp, which looks like a great, cheap option. Unfortunately, it only has Coaxial and Optical inputs, meaning it'd be useless for anything but my home computer. (By the way, do new laptops have optical outputs nowadays? Are there laptop sound cards addons that do?)

Now I'm thinking of possibly getting both, to cover all my needs. I'm not sure this is the right way to go about this (especially since the Zero can't function with my laptop, which I'm going to use in a desktop setup for a long period of time).

The best thing to have would be a good, strong, heavily powered portable that would serve the Denons well (like a stationary one) and would also be easy to move around to use with the IEMs and laptop (on the move). I'm not sure such a thing exists.

I am a bit budgeted but I don't mind spending some $$ if the product is worth it and serves all my needs. I rather not pay double the price for a 15% improvement, that is, but I'll gladly pay for good technology in a reliable package. I am most interested in good sound quality for both my home computer and laptop (when used as a desktop) and a bit less so for mobile use (laptop at work and Zen).

Any help appreciated! Please help me use my money in a smart way!

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shlonglor /img/forum/go_quote.gif I am looking to purchase my first headphone amplifiers and I'm a bit lost. This is the gear I currently have: Denon AH-D2000 Ultimate Ears Super.Fi 5 Pro Creative Zen Sennheiser HD280 (replaced by Denons) I will play music from: 1) M-Audio Revolution 5.1 (optical and analog outs) - home computer 2) Laptop with analog/usb outs 3) Creative Zen (analog out) I am looking for a solution (or two) that will satisfy all my needs, which are: 1) Home listening, using the M-Audio (either a desktop or portable amp) 2) Work - laptop (portable/desktop) 3) Gym and misc - Zen (portable) I was thinking about just going with a portable amp that also has a DAC so it would benefit my laptop's lack of a real source. The D2 Boa looks very nice in that regard - has a nice DAC and it's easy to charge up - but I've heard that it has relatively little juice (100mW). That'd probably be ok with me Super.Fis (they're already quite nice with just the Zen), but the Denons might need something more. (I really have no way to know and no one in the Boa thread seems to have tried it with the Denons) Another option is to get the Zero DAC/Amp, which looks like a great, cheap option. Unfortunately, it only has Coaxial and Optical inputs, meaning it'd be useless for anything but my home computer. (By the way, do new laptops have optical outputs nowadays? Are there laptop sound cards addons that do?) Now I'm thinking of possibly getting both, to cover all my needs. I'm not sure this is the right way to go about this (especially since the Zero can't function with my laptop, which I'm going to use in a desktop setup for a long period of time). The best thing to have would be a good, strong, heavily powered portable that would serve the Denons well (like a stationary one) and would also be easy to move around to use with the IEMs and laptop (on the move). I'm not sure such a thing exists. I am a bit budgeted but I don't mind spending some $$ if the product is worth it and serves all my needs. I rather not pay double the price for a 15% improvement, that is, but I'll gladly pay for good technology in a reliable package. I am most interested in good sound quality for both my home computer and laptop (when used as a desktop) and a bit less so for mobile use (laptop at work and Zen). Any help appreciated! Please help me use my money in a smart way!

Well, you said a lot!

That's actually very good!

I think keeping the desktop and portable separate, will give you the biggest bang for the buck. Here is an example of what I mean:

Portable: Zune with portable amp and choice of headphones:
Get a Little-Dot MK1 portable amp, do simple Opamp upgrade per recommendation in the review thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-284847/

Desktop: M-Audio running lossless files, optical or coaxial out to Zero DAC/Amp and choice of headphones:
Get a Zero DAC/Amp, mature it for 100 hours, then change Opamps per recommendations in the review thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-269458/

To allow use of your notebook with the Zero DAC/Amp, get a device similar to this one: PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230260480916 end time Jun-16-08 04:01:52 PDT)

Having the Zero DAC/Amp, also gives you a future upgrade path. Say, maybe 6 months from now, you decide you'd like to have a dedicated tube or SS headphone amp. No problem. Just get the one you want and drive it with the Zero's DAC outputs.

I hope this is making sense.

It is a budget way to get quality audio out of what you already have. Many folks have taken this path, and are very glad they did. Hope this helps some!

 

[tk3]

If you want the most for your money, you should definitely give DIY amps a thought.

 

[Shlonglor]

Thanks for the replies.
I see that the PCLINK thing has a USB input and an analog output. How do I connect it to a Zero?

I am quite clueless when it comes to soldering stuff or messing with small electronics, unfortunately. :/ Is the Opamp surgery really necessary?

 

[tpc41]

that particular pc link is not what you are looking for, there are more on ebay that provide you with a digital out that look the same, i think penchum was just looking a little quick and didn't pick the right one

here is what u need
PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230258400801 end time Jun-09-08 03:42:53 PDT)

 

[pirate6955]

maybe the headroom portable micro amp with dac would suit you.
has optical, usb, analog inputs. 3 gain settings...

mac laptops have optical in/out. toslink mini plugs into the same jack as the 1/8" analog.

 

[synaesthetic]

If I were looking for a solution for laptop and portable listening, I would strongly consider the RSA Predator or the Corda 2Move. Or perhaps a Pico if you've got money to burn.

 

[Shlonglor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Well, you said a lot! That's actually very good! I think keeping the desktop and portable separate, will give you the biggest bang for the buck. Here is an example of what I mean: Portable: Zune with portable amp and choice of headphones: Get a Little-Dot MK1 portable amp, do simple Opamp upgrade per recommendation in the review thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...lifier-284847/ Desktop: M-Audio running lossless files, optical or coaxial out to Zero DAC/Amp and choice of headphones: Get a Zero DAC/Amp, mature it for 100 hours, then change Opamps per recommendations in the review thread here: http://www.head-fi.org/forums/f5/rev...re-amp-269458/ To allow use of your notebook with the Zero DAC/Amp, get a device similar to this one: PCLINK USB-DAC HEADPHONE AMP 24BIT, UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230258400712 end time Jun-09-08 03:42:14 PDT) Having the Zero DAC/Amp, also gives you a future upgrade path. Say, maybe 6 months from now, you decide you'd like to have a dedicated tube or SS headphone amp. No problem. Just get the one you want and drive it with the Zero's DAC outputs. I hope this is making sense. It is a budget way to get quality audio out of what you already have. Many folks have taken this path, and are very glad they did. Hope this helps some!

Hey man, that MK1 review left me in tears. Your write ups are amazing.

Ok, so I guess getting the MK1 + Zero would be great, especially if I can use that 25$ thing and get an optical connection out of the laptop. (does that conversion affect quality in any way, or is it all nice and digital all the way through?)

That really covers all my bases, especially if, like you say, the MK1 and the Zero could be connected to produce an even better 1-2 punch. How do you think the quality of such a contraption would be compared to a more expensive, one piece solution like the 475$ Predator? Will it definitely provide enough juice for the Denons?

By the way, is the DAC on the Zero better than the M-Audio's AKM4358? How about the one on the Predator or 2Move?

Can someone point me to an Opamp changing tutorial so I can figure out if it's feasible?

Edit: Looking at the review thread, it looks pretty simple. And cheap! I'll certainly give it a shot if I go with it.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shlonglor /img/forum/go_quote.gif Hey man, that MK1 review left me in tears. Your write ups are amazing. Ok, so I guess getting the MK1 + Zero would be great, especially if I can use that 25$ thing and get an optical connection out of the laptop. (does that conversion affect quality in any way, or is it all nice and digital all the way through?) That really covers all my bases, especially if, like you say, the MK1 and the Zero could be connected to produce an even better 1-2 punch. How do you think the quality of such a contraption would be compared to a more expensive, one piece solution like the 475$ Predator? Will it definitely provide enough juice for the Denons? By the way, is the DAC on the Zero better than the M-Audio's AKM4358? How about the one on the Predator or 2Move? Can someone point me to an Opamp changing tutorial so I can figure out if it's feasible? Edit: Looking at the review thread, it looks pretty simple. And cheap! I'll certainly give it a shot if I go with it.

Sorry!

My bad. I linked to the wrong unit (they look alike), try this one instead: PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230260480916 end time Jun-16-08 04:01:52 PDT)

 

[Shlonglor]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Penchum /img/forum/go_quote.gif Sorry! My bad. I linked to the wrong unit (they look alike), try this one instead: PCLINK USB-SPDIF FOR AUDIO 24BIT , UDA1321 / CS8405A - eBay (item 230260480916 end time Jun-16-08 04:01:52 PDT)

No problem, TPC already got me covered. Any comment about the rest of the stuff?
I think I might be able to keep an old Porta Corda for a few months (hopefully till the MK I+ comes out), so I need to figure out if the Zero is the end all product that it seems to be and go for it (and then add the MK I+ to it for extra umph and portability).

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shlonglor /img/forum/go_quote.gif No problem, TPC already got me covered. Any comment about the rest of the stuff? I think I might be able to keep an old Porta Corda for a few months (hopefully till the MK I+ comes out), so I need to figure out if the Zero is the end all product that it seems to be and go for it (and then add the MK I+ to it for extra umph and portability).

Well, now I'm a bit confused (nothing new

).

I don't see why you would want to hook the MK1 or MK1+ to the Zero's output. The Zero's built-in headphone amp is very powerful. I think I'd use the MK1/MK1+ for portable use only. Or have I not drank enough coffee this morning?

 

[Shlonglor]

I'm referring to this (from the MK1 review) :

"My next test was to use my desktop PC, with its X-FI sound card, optical out to my Zero DAC/Amp, then analog out to the MK1, using my HD-650s. This was a test to see if the MK1 could perform at a level high enough to be used double duty as a portable amp and as a desktop headphone amp. I switched the gain down to the lowest setting, because of the higher output of the DAC/Amp. This test really surprised me! The results were absolute proof the MK1 is a serious high quality amp in a portable wrapper. Using lossless WAV files for playback the MK1 really showed me just how it can amplify complete and detailed full spectrum sound. The amplification of the increased dynamics and cleaner signal were way beyond my expectations... "

No reason to use the MK1 for more juice? (I'm still scared about the Denons requiring more juice than other phones)

Do you (or anyone) have a clue regarding my questions about the M-Audio/Zero DACs? I have no idea how to judge those things and decide which DAC I want to use.

 

[Penchum]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Shlonglor /img/forum/go_quote.gif I'm referring to this (from the MK1 review) : "My next test was to use my desktop PC, with its X-FI sound card, optical out to my Zero DAC/Amp, then analog out to the MK1, using my HD-650s. This was a test to see if the MK1 could perform at a level high enough to be used double duty as a portable amp and as a desktop headphone amp. I switched the gain down to the lowest setting, because of the higher output of the DAC/Amp. This test really surprised me! The results were absolute proof the MK1 is a serious high quality amp in a portable wrapper. Using lossless WAV files for playback the MK1 really showed me just how it can amplify complete and detailed full spectrum sound. The amplification of the increased dynamics and cleaner signal were way beyond my expectations... " No reason to use the MK1 for more juice? (I'm still scared about the Denons requiring more juice than other phones) Do you (or anyone) have a clue regarding my questions about the M-Audio/Zero DACs? I have no idea how to judge those things and decide which DAC I want to use.

No. The Zero's headphone amp has more power available, for those dynamic passages and heavier loads.

This is almost always the case when talking about the differences between portable DAC/Amps and desktop DAC/Amps. That DAC chip from M-Audio, is unknown to me, so I have no idea. I know the one used in the Zero is very good though. The feedback from users of the Zero's DAC, has been very positive.

The reason I used the DAC output to drive the MK1 in the review, was to show that it has the potential to be more than just another portable amp. If someone had a DAC without a headphone amp, they could drive the MK1 with it. With a DAC/Amp that has a decent built-in headphone amp, the desktop DAC/Amp is going to win almost every time, due to power availability for voltage swings during dynamic moments/passages in the music.

 

[Shlonglor]

Oh, I see. I thought connecting both and using the combined amping power would give better results.

Well, thanks!