TedB
100+ Head-Fier
The base price of the Dayzee is $1300. Unless there is a discount by having Geshelli do it, swapping in (8) single SS2590s will add another $600 to the bill.
Geshelli J2S DAC and Sparkos SS2590 - YES!
- Thread starter TedB
- Start date
Yes, a little bit strange, that all eight opamps must be replaced:
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/dayzee-flagship-dac-from-geshelli-labs.972083/page-2#post-18051539
Then the Dayzee is around 2k......., so the J2S with SS2590 might be a better VFM
True, but it seems the Dayzee will be in a whole other league (in both sound and price).
Patswalker
500+ Head-Fier
It’s a totally different topology. Almost not able to compare the two. They’re built to be doing different things. The Dayzee is very much a digital hub for many devices. Yes they can use the same opamps but the topology and implementation of the opamps and dac chips are what creates the sonic experience. Look at it this way, the two options of the J2S have different dac chips and similar topology yet they sound different. The Dayzee is a completely different dac with a completely different layout so foundationally it will be a different experience. It was designed to be a completely different experience.
I am curious how it will compare to Schiit Yggi and Audio-GD DACs in the same price range.
TedB
100+ Head-Fier
Not knowing more than the basics at this point, the Dayzee appears to address the more upscale aesthetic experience many asked from the J2 platform. Whereas the J2 is an austere, pure "meat and potatoes" DAC that emphasizes hardware and implementation over aesthetics, and that makes it a great value in sonic performance, the Dayzee provides the nice large case, fancy display, and greater connectivity many find attractive, albeit at much greater cost.
Both the J2S and Dayzee use the same AKM 4499EX+4191 chipset although the Dayzee specs imply that it employs "dual mono" AK 4499EX sets. And as mentioned, the Dayzee uses an individual mono op amp and socket for each channel instead of stacked mono (dual) units. Because Geshelli authorizes the top op amp option for the J2S to be the SS3602, the Dayzee with SS2590s presesnts an upgrade above the best official version of the J2S.
The aesthetic and connectivity upgrades the Dayzee brings for those who want more of a living room visual piece are clear, but whether there is anything to be gained sonically above a "hacked" J2S with SS2590s and LPS - upgrades not authorized by Geshelli, remains in question at this time.
Both the J2S and Dayzee use the same AKM 4499EX+4191 chipset although the Dayzee specs imply that it employs "dual mono" AK 4499EX sets. And as mentioned, the Dayzee uses an individual mono op amp and socket for each channel instead of stacked mono (dual) units. Because Geshelli authorizes the top op amp option for the J2S to be the SS3602, the Dayzee with SS2590s presesnts an upgrade above the best official version of the J2S.
The aesthetic and connectivity upgrades the Dayzee brings for those who want more of a living room visual piece are clear, but whether there is anything to be gained sonically above a "hacked" J2S with SS2590s and LPS - upgrades not authorized by Geshelli, remains in question at this time.
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activestatic
Head-Fier
What advantage does using a linear power supply provide? Which one would you recommend?
TedB
100+ Head-Fier
Digital audio devices like DACs and streamers tend to be sensitive to noisy switch mode power supplies (SMPS), which most know as "wall warts." These are inexpensive and allow manufacturers to keep costs in check, although they tend to impact sound quality to some extent. This isn't an issue for the average consumer with inexpensive gear, but it does become more of a concern with better, more resolving setups and more discriminating listeners. Two options that can significantly improve the quality of the DC power feed to sensitive devices include the iFi iPowerX , which is a SMPS with active filtering to deal with the noise, or a suitable linear power supply (LPS) with good regulation and filtering that eliminates the noisy switching circuit altogether. Many have noted audible improvements when upgrading the power supply for DACs and streamers, significantly so with certain devices, so it's something to consider.
Still... It is unnecessarily, silly huge. Geno wanted to pitch this at me just before he started showing it off. I don't like it. He admittedly needs to upgrade his setup to move into tighter, smaller more refined PCB layouts.
Agreed, it is larger than it "needs" to be. Can't imagine when I will ever have a chance to hear one, anyway. (BTW, my replacement half of a SS2590 should be here in a few days. Will sand down the boards and try to make it fit my older J2S.)
Patswalker
500+ Head-Fier
All true. But know that many engineers design their products and build the sound around the common switch mode power supplies that come with the products. I have for sure heard some improvement from going to a linear power supply but nothing worth spending more than one or two hundred on. Never ever be fooled by marketing and the hifi chat room or reviewer video hype to think that your product will sound bad with the switch mode power supply. Again, lots of the time the engineers design them around those. I know Geshelli does and Robb Watts the engineer behind the wild Chord products has been quoted many times saying he does the same and he personally uses the switch mode power supplies that come with his products. Is there a difference in switching to a linear power supply, yup! There is for sure. Are the products, especially the Geshelli products still crazy amazing with the included switch mode power supply, absolutely 1000% yes.
There is actually a third option I often take which I have found much more sonic benefit from. Two actually, if we’re talking dacs. And to be clear, I thought this was B.S. for years until I experienced it. So I am a snake oil skeptic. The first is a really good power conditioner. For a couple years I have used Core Power Technologies and I recently paid for one from Pine Tree Audio. I use those two companies because they are direct to customer which saves us money and the have wildly positive reviews. This doesn’t need to be hyper expensive. When we build the foundation of our hifi experience on clean power from the wall it has a positive effect on everything we connect to it. It’s more expensive than just one linear power supply for sure but if you get one with a few outlets you can be positively effecting the sound on multiple products at once as opposed to one the one the linear power supply is on. The power conditioner is much more of a Swiss Army knife solution for multiple products at once. What I did is I cleaned up my power first then after that decided what I want even cleaner power for. I got those products on a linear power supply. That are the Geshelli J2S and the Archel 3 Pro. What the good power conditioner sounded like is that there was haze or noise between the notes of my music I didn’t know was there until I cleaned it up and heard the music without it. To me it had a very big impact. What adding the linear power supply sounded like was that it cleaned that up maybe 5% more. Granted, I live is Los Angeles and the power can be nasty here at times. The second thing is getting some sort of DDC. I have used the Singxer SU6 I think it is. I am currently using the Matrix Xpdif 3. I for sure hear a sonic difference with this as well. If you all reading this haven’t used these, it’s basically the same thing as a power conditioner for your digital signal. To my ears it does the same thing. Cleans up the signal so I can now hear much more space between notes and instruments, this comes across as more clarity, more separation, which creates greater soundstage. The great thing is it’s usually one usb signal in and multiple digital signals out so it can also help clean the digital signal for multiple dacs. Also, use a good digital cable. Doesn’t have to be anything crazy but do get something good. It helps. I have dacs and amps up into the few thousand dollars realm, anywhere between a couple hundred for a dongle to a $5000 dac/amp I love. A good collection of headphones and a great stereo to match. I’m proud of my collection and I’ve spent years building it and hunting for parts. I only say that to say that I always use good digital cable but I never spend many hundreds on on them. My good cable are around like $100-$200max they work beautifully for both dongles and super $$$. I get then from Supra Cables or Pine Tree Audio.
I rant some times so apologies. I hope I can help those on here starting their hifi journey by hearing what I’ve found over the years. I’ve spent lots of money experimenting with different products and options and cable and blah blah blah so hopefully someone can potentially avoid that here. But the journey of searching is for sure important too because it’s all subjective so what I love others might now!
So I say hell yah get a linear power supply! It’ll help for sure. But I’ve personally found a lot of that help in clean signals and power and that has the same effect of multiple products at the same time which in the end makes therm price for performance much better than cleaning the power to one product
Patswalker
500+ Head-Fier
I agree. I love the idea of what they're doing here with the Dayzee but it seems that it's very much a niche product. Great for a few set ups but not for everyone. In emailing with them they've told me that it sounds amazing but it's a bit of a waste of money if I am not connecting it to multiple sources because of all the outputs that come on it. What I think Geno needs to do is cut down the analog outputs on the Dayzee to make it for maybe 2 amps, that's far more common for the every day HIFI enthusiast. Still make the dac topology as wild as the Dayzee, still make it a big step up from the J2 dacs. I love my J2 Geshelli stack. That will be forever on my desk. I'll keep it for ever and ever. But it would be way cool to see what they can make that's like 2/3 of the way to the Dayzee. Like a Dayzee for normal consumers.
Patswalker
500+ Head-Fier
I'd bet its as big as the Dayzee needs to be but not many people actually need the dayzee. I don't know that I know anyone I can think of that have all the amps on hand connected that need all the analog outputs the Dayzee offers.
Patswalker
500+ Head-Fier
Look at the bigger post I just listed that describes my experiences with linear power supplies vs other options. It might add some clarity to your question there.
Heck, My J2S has more inputs than I need! Geshelli makes the USB optional but forces us to pay for two SPDIFs and two toslinks for no good reason. Could have been even more of a bargain if those front panel inputs were optional! HOWEVER, at its price, it's too good a deal for me to be complaining about too many inputs
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