[dariusf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood Funny that the masses are just forgetting about the record profits the oil companies are posting, when they've lied about it in the past, and their current spin on their price gouging is not even an effort. But why aren't more people angry with the lame excuses the oil companies are spouting out of their @sses about what is obvious price gouging? Well, the answer is something I can't post about since it will delve into Outside material. -Ed

I will try to lookup the details but I recently seen a nice breakdown of the oil companies financials and the profits on the HUGE volume of sales were ~ 10% if I'm not mistaken. Not to excuse the oil companies but the profit numbers seem very large do to the very large sales but are not so large when looking at the % of total sales. After all we need to keep in mind that oil is a commodity traded on the open market. Not only that but its a scarce commodity with a limited supply. We are looking at pure economics of supply and demand. I wonder when the US will catch up price wise to the rest of the world, $5-6/ gallon anyone?

Quote:

5 mpg $500 - $900

Just wait till the prices of goods start reflect the massive transportation cost. I'm hoping that the economics will create a cost benefit to increase local food production. Fresh with lower cost of delivery.

I also want my 100% electric car for local use at reasonable prices.

 

[Pace]

Quote:

Originally Posted by fureshi ...it's a little disappointing when i see other people complaining about gas prices when they aren't willing to give up their gas guzzling suvs. maybe it won't be as painful if they also drove fuel efficient cars...

This is so very true. In europe people are used to driving with smaller cars... For example my mother drives a 2006 VW Golf Wagon with manual transmission... it is quite easy to get 25 MPG in cities and 33 MPG on the road with that thing.

 

[Mr.PD]

I heard that a company is building a plant near here to make ethanol. But all they can do is break down the raw ingredients. The liquid they make then has to be transported to a refinery.

You think a truck eats fuel, a freight locomotive consumes 100 gallons or more per hour. The fuel tanks on the newer models hold 5,000 gallons.
I was on a train that blew a fuel filter and spewed out an estimated 2,500 gallons of diesel before we noticed it.

On another note;
I hear that Brazil runs on ethanol and has no imports of oil. Is that true?

 

[The_Duke_Of_Eli]

About 3.63$ here in Toronto. But the 1 GBP / litre is ridiculous. About 7.3$.

 

[Elec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AndyRx7 To be slightly pessimistic, the problem with your second point is that there is no long haul.

So you're saying the end of the world is near? And that's only slightly pessimistic?

edit: A lot of people mention higher gas prices in other parts of the world, but my understanding is that's largely due to taxes, with tax being up to 75% of the total cost of a gallon of gas in some places. IF that's the case, I hope the US never catches up to the rest of the world, because it really just means the politicians are gouging us too. We're not somehow magically getting a cheaper oil supply, we're just not paying huge taxes on our gas. Those of you in Europe can thank your elected officials (or move to Venezuela - 12 cents a gallon!)

This is somewhat old but cites the 75% figure and has some global prices.
http://money.cnn.com/pf/features/lis...bal_gasprices/

Also from howstuffworks.com http://money.howstuffworks.com/gas-price.htm:
Taxes - Taxes, including federal and local, account for about 20 percent of the total price of gas in the United States. Federal excise taxes are 18.4 cents per gallon, and state excise taxes average 20 cents per gallon. There may also be some additional state sales taxes, as well as local and city taxes. In Europe, gas prices are far higher than in America because taxes on gas are much higher. For example, gas prices in England have risen as high as $6 per gallon, with 78 percent of that going to taxes.

 

[dariusf]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD I hear that Brazil runs on ethanol and has no imports of oil. Is that true?

"Brazil produces 14 billion liters annually, enough to replace about 40% of its gasoline demand. Also as a result, they announced their independence from Middle East oil in April 2006. Most new cars sold in Brazil are flexible-fuel vehicles that can run on ethanol, gasoline, or any blend of the two. In addition, all fuel sold in Brazil contains at least 25% ethanol."

They produce ethanol from sugar derived from local farming. The thing about ethanol is that besides the required engine etc, it is corrosive so there are more changes needed to be done to the car. GM sells flax fuel cars for Brazilian market with sensors that adjust based on the detected fuel type. Ethanol is troublesome in colder climates which would require a flax fuel vehicle or a mixture.

There are many and some quite mature alternative technologies available. Diesel, diesel using bio-diesel, electric hybrid, electric, ethanol mixes, Liquefied petroleum gas. The problem is that its not widely available in the US and I would be concerned with the possible maintenance problems aside from the initial added purchase cost.

good info:

Flexible-fuel vehicle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flexible-fuel_vehicle

Plug-in hybrid electric vehicle
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Plug-in...ectric_vehicle

"The cost of electricity for a PHEV is about $0.03/mi ($0.019/km) from standard household outlets." WOW

I want one!

 

[PhilS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Edwood Funny that the masses are just forgetting about the record profits the oil companies are posting, when they've lied about it in the past, and their current spin on their price gouging is not even an effort. But why aren't more people angry with the lame excuses the oil companies are spouting out of their @sses about what is obvious price gouging?

EDIT: Deleted. This is really getting into the political realm. (But, Ed, I think you're incorrect. See posts 85 and 91, for example.)

 

[iq160plus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by LFF I'm not touching that with a ten foot pole.

Thats a 3.048 meter pole for you strange-driving-type people

 

[iq160plus]

EDIT: Thought taken. I shoulda read the whole thread

 

[TMHBAT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD I hear that Brazil runs on ethanol and has no imports of oil. Is that true?

Brazil uses a lot of ethanol and, with its recent off-shore drilling, imports almost no oil. But ethanol is 1) only about 20% of the fuel market, 2) less efficient than oil, and 3) still requires energy to grow, refine, transport, etc.
http://yaleglobal.yale.edu/display.article?id=6817

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elec edit: A lot of people mention higher gas prices in other parts of the world, but my understanding is that's largely due to taxes, with tax being up to 75% of the total cost of a gallon of gas in some places. IF that's the case, I hope the US never catches up to the rest of the world, because it really just means the politicians are gouging us too.

The prices are determined by all sorts of things, including the billions and billions of public dollars given to oil companies by governments that are ostensibily committed to free-market principles. It may surprise you to learn that the politicians in Europe are not collecting taxes just to increase their personal wealth. The general idea with the whole "tax" concept is to invest in things that are for the long-term good of a country rather than the short-term good of a profit machine.

 

[AlanY]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHBAT The prices are determined by all sorts of things, including the billions and billions of public dollars given to oil companies by governments that are ostensibily committed to free-market principles.

Everyone around the world pays the same price for crude, and roughly the same price for refining and commercial sale. All other price differences are due to local tax policy.

In Europe, virtually all of the price at the pumps is taxes. In Britain, for example, the government takes 75 percent, and raises gas taxes by 5 percent above inflation every year (this has been suspended since 2005 due to extremely high prices).

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHBAT It may surprise you to learn that the politicians in Europe are not collecting taxes just to increase their personal wealth. The general idea with the whole "tax" concept is to invest in things that are for the long-term good of a country rather than the short-term good of a profit machine.

It would make sense to use gas tax revenue to invest in public transportation infrastructure, alternative energy, etc., but the sad reality is that in countries with high gas taxes, the gas tax money just tends to end up being another scheme for raising general funds. For instance, in Canada, you often hear people say that they don't mind paying gas taxes (46% of the price at the pump in BC) because someone needs to pay for the roads, but only 2.3% of the federal gas taxes actually get spent on transportation:
http://taxpayer.com/pdf/GasTaxSpending&Revenues2002.pdf

 

[Elec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHBAT The prices are determined by all sorts of things, including the billions and billions of public dollars given to oil companies by governments that are ostensibily committed to free-market principles. It may surprise you to learn that the politicians in Europe are not collecting taxes just to increase their personal wealth. The general idea with the whole "tax" concept is to invest in things that are for the long-term good of a country rather than the short-term good of a profit machine.

That's all fine and good, but at least in this thread, I don't care about tax policy or what leaders in Europe are using tax money for. The point was that since the main difference between gas prices in the US and Europe boils down to taxes, the comparison is somewhat artificial (even though it IS interesting to see what gas costs around the world) and there's not much reason for anyone to suggest prices in the US should really be approaching what they are in Europe or anywhere else.

 

[TMHBAT]

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY Everyone around the world pays the same price for crude, and roughly the same price for refining and commercial sale. All other price differences are due to local tax policy.

Well, then those billions of tax dollars are money well spent! Of course, funnelling tax money into oil companies (unless it is literally nothing but naked curruption) is part of "local tax policy."

Quote:

Originally Posted by AlanY It would make sense to use gas tax revenue to invest in public transportation infrastructure, alternative energy, etc., but the sad reality is that in countries with high gas taxes, the gas tax money just tends to end up being another scheme for raising general funds. For instance, in Canada, you often hear people say that they don't mind paying gas taxes (46% of the price at the pump in BC) because someone needs to pay for the roads, but only 2.3% of the federal gas taxes actually get spent on transportation:

I am absolutely not defending the present system in Canada, or anywhere else. I would be in favour of gas (and other fossil fuel) taxes being specifically allocated to help pay for the various costs of having a fossil fuel-based society. In fact, I'd love it if they weren't even called "taxes," if the cost of gas was simply calculated on the basis of all he real, particular costs, now and in the future, of using it. You can bet the price would be higher than it is now, even without counting the value of "intangibles" such as the non-economic value of the environment.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elec . . . and there's not much reason for anyone to suggest prices in the US should really be approaching what they are in Europe or anywhere else.

This seems to be a rather blatant non sequitur (if you meant it as a sequitur). At any rate, as I and others have pointed out, there are monumental reasons for the prices to be going up. The problem isn't that the prices are rising; the problem is that the money is still going to Exxon and Saudi Arabia rather than alternative energy and sustainable development.

 

[CookieFactory]

Blame the Euro and it's growing influence!

 

[GoRedwings19]

it's £1.01 per litre. Which makes it about £5.05 per gallon. which in US currency is about $7.50????

It always suprises me that US always complain about gas prices. Yet they insist on buying big engined motors which does about as much mileage per gallon as a M1 abrams battle tank.

Yet your oil prices are over half than what it is here.