[Born2bwire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by GoRedwings19 it's £1.01 per litre. Which makes it about £5.05 per gallon. which in US currency is about $7.50???? It always suprises me that US always complain about gas prices. Yet they insist on buying big engined motors which does about as much mileage per gallon as a M1 abrams battle tank. Yet your oil prices are over half than what it is here.

Actually about 3.80 pounds per gallon (our gallon is less than your imperial gallon).

I can't remember where I saw it, but recently I saw some data comparing the cost of gas in countries around the world, however, they showed the amount paid for the gasoline and the amount paid due to taxes. It appeared that considering the cost of gas alone, US citizens pay about the same as Europeans. It was the far heavier taxes that caused a much higher rate for Europeans. Really wish I could remember where I saw that.

 

[CMacDaddy]

Last semester I took attended many lectures dealing with the problems in the gas market, and I'm concluded that theres only 3 ways to lower gas prices immediatly.

1) conserve - carpool, cut down on trips, use public transit, bike, etc
2) improve efficiency - the average internal combustion engine is VERY inefficient. About ~10% of the chemical energy goes into making the car move (the rest goes into cooling the car, friction, heat, etc).
3) Nuclear Power - Its the only reasonable alternative now that would impact gas prices, and its time to build now because each plant takes ~10 years to build.

Now to address some other ideas that have potential.

1) hydrogen fuel cells - the big problem right now is that it takes 2 times the amount of energy to produce the fuel cell than you will get out of it. Thats roughly 30% efficient. If theres a way to make the actual fuel cell engine run at over 50% efficiency, it would still be viable, but with the current technology, its a pipe dream.

2) ethanol - Countries like Brazil are energy independent because of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas based fuel). It would take a lot of capital to build enough fueling stations, and a large commitment from many different sources (farms, refining industry, distributing, and transport). I'm not sure if this matters, but Brazil's ethanol based fuel is derived from sugar cane, while in the US its derived from corn. Kinda curious what difference there is.

3) Hybrid Cars/electric cars - This comes down to a question of efficiency that I can't answer. How much more efficient is the generation of electricity from fossil fuel compared to internal combustion engines? I dont know. If it is much more efficient, then this may be a viable option, but if not, it would just be shifting the demand from one inefficient process to another.



To the people accusing the energy industry of price gouging. First of all, Exxon, Chevron, Shell, and BP don't neccessarily own or set the price at the pump. They often don't have anything to do with the pumping station except provide them gas at the market price (which they cannot affect). Despite Exxons record profits, they only made about a 10-15% return on investment. A new profit windfall tax on the oil industry won't change the prices, it'll just wreck the american companies and force them to sell their reserves to competitors (likely foreign based).

 

[Born2bwire]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMacDaddy 2) ethanol - Countries like Brazil are energy independent because of E85 (85% ethanol, 15% gas based fuel). It would take a lot of capital to build enough fueling stations, and a large commitment from many different sources (farms, refining industry, distributing, and transport). I'm not sure if this matters, but Brazil's ethanol based fuel is derived from sugar cane, while in the US its derived from corn. Kinda curious what difference there is.

I remember my advisor saying as it stands, that producing corn based ethanol is energy deficient. On the other hand, sugar based ethanol is energy efficient to produce.

 

[Elec]

Quote:

Originally Posted by TMHBAT This seems to be a rather blatant non sequitur (if you meant it as a sequitur). At any rate, as I and others have pointed out, there are monumental reasons for the prices to be going up. The problem isn't that the prices are rising; the problem is that the money is still going to Exxon and Saudi Arabia rather than alternative energy and sustainable development.

It was meant as a general comment on the thread (since at least a few folks seemed to think America was magically getting cheap gas and that this should stop soon), not as a response to you in particular, but it's hard to quote/reply someone and not have it seem that everything in the post is a response to them.

Otherwise, I agree, there certainly are valid reasons for gas prices to be higher now than they used to be and that we aren't devoting nearly enough money to alternative sources of energy and conservation efforts. I was just thinking about how this $70B tax cut was passed, and how much that money could have helped scientists working on renewable and sustainable energy projects

 

[Mr.PD]

Quote:

Originally Posted by smeerkaas The US gasprice should be higher, Americans should drive more fuel efficient cars and the US should invest more in alternative forms of energy. That's just my opinion, you guys have every right to drive any vehicle you choose.

I had a thought the other day.

What kind of mileage does a V12 Mercedes, or a 5 series BMW get driving at 200+KPH on the Autobahn????

We Americans aren't alone in our gas guzzilng ways.

As for alternate forms of energy, the whole world should invest more. US included.

 

[iSleipnir]

3.05 in Beaverton OR, about the same in Walla Walla, WA

 

[JahJahBinks]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mr.PD What kind of mileage does a V12 Mercedes, get driving at 200+KPH on the Autobahn????

About 10-12MPG.

 

[felixkrull6]

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMacDaddy 3) Nuclear Power - Its the only reasonable alternative now that would impact gas prices, and its time to build now because each plant takes ~10 years to build.

The power of the atom, it's the only way to go!

 

[JahJahBinks]

Nuclear Power doesn't generate electricity by itself, it heats water to vapor and the gas pushes turbine generators, the uranium bundle alone is enough to vaporize a tank of water the size of a car, you need a much bigger body of water to contain it in the first place.

 

[Glod]

USD 6,14 per U.S. gallon for RON 95. Our Volvo likes 98 better...

It might be true that the North American infra structure is more dependent on individual transportation. I do not know. In the Netherlands, which is one of the most densely populated countries in the world, public transportation is essential for the economy. It is also, as in many other European countries, a long tradition to tax fuel heavily to raise the incitement to use public transportation or use more fuel efficient transportation. The reason is not only economical considerations, it is also environmental: More traffic means more pollution, noise and asphalt.

 

[CMacDaddy]

Whats the Miles per gallon of a bus? Lightrail?

I'm curious as to how much fuel public transit actually saves.

 

[JahJahBinks]

Well, in New York City, there are over 400 buses running on compressed natural gas, and over 500 on hybrid-electricity. And I have seen similar buses in other cities too.

 

[ken36]

$2.69

 

[ShaftedTwice]

Yeah, about $3.40 here in San Diego, CA..

 

[lini]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elec (...) and there's not much reason for anyone to suggest prices in the US should really be approaching what they are in Europe or anywhere else.

I think there is quite a good reason, with the US state being about as broke as our states over here.

1.36 Euro/liter for Super (95 ROZ) here at the moment, btw. And as we've now arrived in the peak oil phase, it'll only get worse.

Greetings from Hannover!

Manfred / lini