[hmorneau]

  If you think "plastic" is simple, you probably shouldn't be commenting on it.
Although the great variations in "plastic" parameters are unlikely to have any noticeable effect at audio frequencies or USB data rates (unless you go a long way out of your way to find something unsuitable).

 
They will say something generic like "shielded with organic polymers of high molecular mass" which is what most plastic are made of. I'm not saying that there is only one sort of plastic, I'm just saying that they try really hard to find complex word that explain simple concept.

 

[hmorneau]

   
You will see from my signature that I am very much inclined to agree with you.
 
People may say, though, that the copying of a file by  USB is not the same as sending that data to to a DAC; that there is a USB Audio Protocol. l don't know the answer to that. I'm sure there is one?
 
 
I used to sail with a retired plastics scientist. His boat was wooden. He said he felt safer in a wooden boat because he knew very little about wood, but he knew too much about plastic to feel safe!

If we have protocol to transfer file without any error, there is no reason not to have one to transfer numeric audio without error as well. If the protocol was broken, then we would simply have to fix it. Buying expensive cable is not the way of doing that.
 
From wikipedia: "Unlike analog signals, digital data can be transmitted, manipulated, and stored without degradation, albeit with more complex equipment. But a DAC is needed to convert the digital signal to analog to drive an earphone or loudspeaker amplifier in order to produce sound (analog air pressure waves)."
 
Basically as long as it's digital nothing will change, I have a pretty good DAC (Wyred 4 sound DAC2) and even with a dollar store usb cable I don't hear any noise in the background. The most important part is the connection once the digital signal have been converted to analog. Personally I use balanced cable between my DAC and my amp, that way I have no noise at all. With RCA I can get some interference (background noise). Personally I use digiflex cable touring series, they are made with neutrik connector.
 

 
$13 for a 3 feet and there are made to last.

 

[hmorneau]

  the only improvement a 'better' cable 'might' make is in the ability to deliver clean bus power for dacs that might not be properly power isolated or use the usb power bus as a reference voltage directly.  but then again i highly doubt any decent dac designer worth their reputation would ever use the usb bus power directly without serious re-regulation and filtering in the middle. money better spent would be some sort of usb bus power filter.  

Just open your computer case, you will see how many cable without proper shield are in there, your power will be already dirty before it even leaves your usb port. I don't think the part going outside the case with make much of a difference. 
 
I'm sure changing to a different computer would have a much bigger impact then the usb cable (if your DAC is crappy and grab interference from the usb interface).

 

[groovyd]

  Just open your computer case, you will see how many cable without proper shield are in there, your power will be already dirty before it even leaves your usb port. I don't think the part going outside the case with make much of a difference. 
 
I'm sure changing to a different computer would have a much bigger impact then the usb cable (if your DAC is crappy and grab interference from the usb interface).

my point being more that the 'only' difference could be in the delivery of bus power as the signal part is identical no matter what the cable. digital is digital.  for dacs that tie into the usb bus power directly or use it as a reference you might hear a difference between two cables but sure usb power is ridiculously noisey already.

 

[Chris J]

Just open your computer case, you will see how many cable without proper shield are in there, your power will be already dirty before it even leaves your usb port. I don't think the part going outside the case with make much of a difference. 

I'm sure changing to a different computer would have a much bigger impact then the usb cable (if your DAC is crappy and grab interference from the usb interface).

Good point.
People often say that USB Cable A may be better than Cable B because Cable A has better shielding.
Or is the USB cable shielded to protect the signal from noise radiated by the poorly shielded computer?
Just thinking out loud....

 

[hmorneau]

Good point.
People often say that USB Cable A may be better than Cable B because Cable A has better shielding.
Or is the USB cable shielded to protect the signal from noise radiated by the poorly shielded computer?
Just thinking out loud....

The problem is that the usb power doesn't start at the usb port, but at the PSU, so once it get to the usb it's already full of noise. It's like getting in a home with your boots full of dirty and you ask if vacuuming your floor would prevent your boots from getting dirty, they already are!

 

[groovyd]

  The problem is that the usb power doesn't start at the usb port, but at the PSU, so once it get to the usb it's already full of noise. It's like getting in a home with your boots full of dirty and you ask if vacuuming your floor would prevent your boots from getting dirty, they already are!

yeah, well it is what it is... like i said a power filter would be a better investment then a better cable.

 

[Lorspeaker]

This cabledyne USB cable is amazing...
That rustle in the bush as the samurais come charging thru ..
What a treat

 

[BirdManOfCT]

Detection and measurement are two different things. I can detect light in my room but i do not have the tools to measure its intensity or other properties, for example.

As for measurements, didn't 00940 posted something along those lines?

-- added text below --

Before anyone says that those measurements are for cables only, not the system.. This is what i posted elsewhere earlier:

As for how much the differences between cables manifest themselves at the speakers depends a lot on a number of factors. If you place a pair of headphones in a well and mic the sound from above the well, there's not going to be a lot of difference between headphones. I don't disagree that these differences (on cables) are may be due to simple factors like shielding and separation. But the bottom line is, there are differences among cables. Whether or not it is hearable is another matter.

Actually, this is where science comes in. Several of the seminars i've watched talk about limits of hearing. And how we are still learning about what we can or cannot hear. A lot of things remain without explanation - and this is from someone who design dac chips so i know he knows what he's talking about. While this is beside the point, what i'm saying is, somethings we cannot explain actually exist.

I'm tired of most no-difference types. It started a long time ago when I was scoffed. And then proven right 10-20 years later. Suddenly, they're preaching a different tune and acting like THEY were the first to recognize it. Nope. And they weren't even the first to measure it. I had measurements, which were dismissed because it "wasn't possible".
 
Sounds like that old saying that those who say it can't be done should get out of the way of those already doing it.

 

[BirdManOfCT]

Too bad the thread can't have this as part of the title:

LOL

 

[BirdManOfCT]

  Sad fact is you cant persuade some people with science, data, or any other form of empirical evidence....people will spend their money how they like regardless.  Its entirely possible that temperature difference or humidity can affect sound quality with speaker set-ups yet people dont investigate that but still spend a few hundred bucks on silver cables. 
 
Probably get a better response in the sound science forums, the geeks love this sort of data

You can't evaluate a system only by its components alone. Kinda like saying the fuel line from gas tank to engine is digital -- either it works or it doesn't. Therefore, all gas-fueled cars are the same. 

 

[BirdManOfCT]

  the only improvement a 'better' cable 'might' make is in the ability to deliver clean bus power for dacs that might not be properly power isolated or use the usb power bus as a reference voltage directly.  but then again i highly doubt any decent dac designer worth their reputation would ever use the usb bus power directly without serious re-regulation and filtering in the middle. money better spent would be some sort of usb bus power filter.  

So, seems obvious that in some possible situations there could be an audible difference? And not just placebo effect?

 

[Head Injury]

 
So, seems obvious that in some possible situations there could be an audible difference? And not just placebo effect?

In some rare, specific cases yes, I can see USB cables with a specific design helping, and same with analog cables.
 
The effects, however, will have no correlation to price and little to do with the "innovations" audiophile cables claim to feature. And more often than not the problems will manifest in very obvious ways, like audible noise and dropouts. Not audiophile concepts like "air", "texture", "PRaT", etc.

 

[domer]

I actually have a bit of experience with this subject and because of that I want to quickly jump in here.  It is possible (ok, likely) that this same comment was already posted like 20 times, but I could only make it to someone copy/pasting an interview with some "expert" from Audioquest (yeah, the company that makes products like this) before giving up.
 
Of course digital signals are simply analog square waves, and they are subject to the same damage and distortion as any other analog signal.  No argument from me on that!  The difference is that for a digital signal the 'damage' and 'distortion' don't actually affect the end result unless there is an event of biblical proportions causing said damage.  Like let's say you were listening to music in a running microwave oven.  That would do it probably.  Is your USB cable resting on top of a kicking subwoofer?  If so the subwoofer is probably also affecting the sound, but the signal might be wonky too.  You would not believe how bad a square wave can look while still transferring one billion bits with zero errors.  Anyone who claims they can hear a difference between a Monoprice USB cable and a $200 one is either a) lying, b) delusional, or c) the changes are coming from some external factor having nothing directly to do with the cable.  Like the background noise changed while you were exchanging cables, or an analog connector got bumped while putting the headphones on.  Those are the only options, now go buy this and donate $195 to the charity of your choice.

 

[Lorspeaker]

http://www.cabledyne.com/usb-cable.html
 
y waste good money on a 5buckcable