Gah. 'Audiophile' USB Cable.
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:39 AM Post #106 of 191
What is the difference between digital signal sent through usb or digital sent through spdif or AES/EBU? They are all digital 1's and 0's, correct? And if those other standards are subject to noise and jitter what makes usb so magical that it totally is immune to this? A good article to read about what jitter actually is and what effect it has -> http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1093jitter/.

I'm not trying to start a flame war or any thing. I just want it explained to me what makes usb so different from other digital wires used in audio. And why it would not be subject to noise and interference caused by electrical wires for example.


Spdif is different from usb. Usb is packet based. Timing is set by the receiving device. Spdif has to encode clocks within the data.

See Jason Stoddard 's post in the schiit story thread. He just discussed it today.
http://www.head-fi.org/t/701900/schiit-happened-the-story-of-the-worlds-most-improbable-start-up/1185#post_10605619

The article you linked on jitter is not a very good source. It does nothing to relate tye amplitude of jitter to levels required for audible degradation. The 300ps of jitter they are discussing is irrelevant to audio.

Cheers

Ps. If you want to discuss technical questions, the sound science forum is an excellent place to ask. The folks there are interested in understanding how audio works inside and out and you can freely discuss the scientific evidence there
 
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:47 AM Post #107 of 191
Spdif is different from usb. Usb is packet based. Timing is set by the receiving device. Spdif has to encode clocks within the data.

See Jason Stoddard 's post in the schiit story thread. He just discussed it today.

The article you linked on jitter is not a very good source. It does nothing to relate tye amplitude of jitter to levels required for audible degradation. The 300ps of jitter they are discussing is irrelevant to audio.

Cheers

LOL, seemed like a pretty good source to me. I'll do some reading about this on the schiit story thread. Thanks m8, always eager to learn new stuff. Well new for me anyway :wink:.
 
Jun 5, 2014 at 12:51 AM Post #108 of 191
LOL, seemed like a pretty good source to me. I'll do some reading about this on the schiit story thread. Thanks m8, always eager to learn new stuff. Well new for me anyway :wink:.


I really enjoy the schiit narrative :)

Cheers
 
Jun 5, 2014 at 1:11 AM Post #109 of 191
Well, the reason I wanted to make one from the start was I wanted gold plated connectors. I noticed that my DAC would loose signal from time to time when I was fiddling around with the wires at the back of my computer. The standard usb connector seemed very sensitive which is kind of weird because I've never noticed this with external usb hdd's or any other usb based unit for that matter. This has not ever been a issue except with the DAC. When I was checking what it would cost to actually make one I came to the conclusion that it would cost the same or more than just buying a supra usb 2.0 cable for $40 (3 meters). So that's what I think I'll do. See if it solves the problem.
 
Jun 5, 2014 at 1:24 AM Post #110 of 191
You want to make sure all of your cables fit snuggly into their sockets. If you're experiencing dropouts when you fiddle around your computer, it seems like you have a bad connection.

Cheers
 
Jun 5, 2014 at 1:31 AM Post #111 of 191
You want to make sure all of your cables fit snuggly into their sockets. If you're experiencing dropouts when you fiddle around your computer, it seems like you have a bad connection.

Cheers

Well, the motherboard is brand new, only had it for like 2 months maybe. So the sockets have not been used allot.
 
I've used the same exact cable for a ubs hub and never had any drop outs there. Just seems like the DAC is extra sensitive when it comes to signal.
 
Oct 9, 2014 at 4:18 PM Post #113 of 191
  Thought some of you here might find this interesting:
http://archimago.blogspot.ca/2013/04/measurements-usb-cables-for-dacs.html
 
(I posted this in another thread but it was deleted ... so re-posting here)

Sad fact is you cant persuade some people with science, data, or any other form of empirical evidence....people will spend their money how they like regardless.  Its entirely possible that temperature difference or humidity can affect sound quality with speaker set-ups yet people dont investigate that but still spend a few hundred bucks on silver cables. 
 
Probably get a better response in the sound science forums, the geeks love this sort of data :wink:
 
Oct 9, 2014 at 11:58 PM Post #114 of 191
Ideally, in my mind a digital cable should exactly transfer data, no boutique needed. I also believe an analog cable only influences the sound when introducing capacitance or external noise due to poor shielding. A conductor is a conductor. What do you guys think?
 
Oct 10, 2014 at 9:26 PM Post #115 of 191
I use audiophile cable for my printer, it print the text shaper and make the picture cleaner too, the colour are more realistic and vivid. With a $200 the colour are not that nice, but with a $500 cable it's really better.
 
/s
 
Oct 10, 2014 at 9:30 PM Post #116 of 191
  Ideally, in my mind a digital cable should exactly transfer data, no boutique needed. I also believe an analog cable only influences the sound when introducing capacitance or external noise due to poor shielding. A conductor is a conductor. What do you guys think?


Nah, it's waaay more complicated than that!!
I have read so in many, many places, but no one's been able to say in what way
rolleyes.gif

 
(living in the age of science...  with the Emperor's new clothes)
 
Oct 10, 2014 at 10:09 PM Post #117 of 191
Well, if numeric was not numeric (and it was sort of like analog) we would be screwed up at this age of Internet where everybody transfer and copy stuff all the time. 
 
If you plug a USB drive to the end of a usb cable, and copie a music file back and forth a couple of time, I hope nobody will believe that the file will change. But if you stream that same file to a DAC, now the story change, why? Probably because it would sound foolish to report no change after spending that much on a cable. Also notice that the more expensive is the cable, the better it sound. An other funny fact, it's that it always improve the sound, it never do worst then the cheap $2 cable. Also when you read the technical specs of those expensive cable, it's really interesting to see how they can use complicated word to express simple stuff as plastic.
 
For those who really hear a difference, it's because there is actually one. Well, not physically, but in your head yes. It's what we call placebo effect, and that effect is fully recognized by the science. That's why the pharmaceutical industry must do comparison to placebo. When we expect something to happen, there is chance that it will happen. So those who say, not it's really there, yes it is. Lot of people get cured that way, so could it simply improve the sound, sure.There is an interesting article here http://www.nytimes.com/.. Basically they show that he placebo effect doesn't apply just to pills, but to surgery intervention as well. 
 
Now why I'm concern about those cable sounding better thing, well, if an expensive cable sound better, then there is high chance that a more expensive amp may be perceived wrongly in some case to sound better as well simply because it's more expensive. So the placebo effect probably have effect on amp, headphone and other stuff. So at the end of the day it's hard to make a good decision based only on what people report. 
 
Maybe it would be cool to create profile category on head-fi. You ask a couple of simple questions, like do you think cable change the sound in your setup. Then you sort those people in a category where you identify them as being more influenced by the placebo effect. Other who don't, you put them in an other category. So that way we could maybe create a scale of subjectiveness and objectiveness depending of the type of person you are. Then people reading post here could trust more a review from someone who have a "subjectivity" profile similar to them. That way everybody would be happy and at the end people would probably buy equipment that are better for their taste and those cable lover will continue to enjoy their great sound.
 
Oct 11, 2014 at 2:22 AM Post #118 of 191
Also when you read the technical specs of those expensive cable, it's really interesting to see how they can use complicated word to express simple stuff as plastic.

If you think "plastic" is simple, you probably shouldn't be commenting on it.
Although the great variations in "plastic" parameters are unlikely to have any noticeable effect at audio frequencies or USB data rates (unless you go a long way out of your way to find something unsuitable).
 
Oct 11, 2014 at 2:12 PM Post #119 of 191
  If you plug a USB drive to the end of a usb cable, and copie a music file back and forth a couple of time, I hope nobody will believe that the file will change. But if you stream that same file to a DAC, now the story change, why?

 
You will see from my signature that I am very much inclined to agree with you.
 
People may say, though, that the copying of a file by  USB is not the same as sending that data to to a DAC; that there is a USB Audio Protocol. l don't know the answer to that. I'm sure there is one?
 
  If you think "plastic" is simple, you probably shouldn't be commenting on it.
Although the great variations in "plastic" parameters are unlikely to have any noticeable effect at audio frequencies or USB data rates (unless you go a long way out of your way to find something unsuitable).

 
I used to sail with a retired plastics scientist. His boat was wooden. He said he felt safer in a wooden boat because he knew very little about wood, but he knew too much about plastic to feel safe!
 
Oct 11, 2014 at 2:58 PM Post #120 of 191
the only improvement a 'better' cable 'might' make is in the ability to deliver clean bus power for dacs that might not be properly power isolated or use the usb power bus as a reference voltage directly.  but then again i highly doubt any decent dac designer worth their reputation would ever use the usb bus power directly without serious re-regulation and filtering in the middle. money better spent would be some sort of usb bus power filter.  
 

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