[cel4145]

And this has to do with USB cables?

Didn't you know? Just as with Columbus's voyage, a lot of brave cable fans died so that a few could discover the audio benefits of boutique USB cables? LOL

Personally, I think the better analogy is astronomer Fred Hoyle, who coined the term "Big Bang Theory," but never could accept it himself

 

[Chris J]

Google is your friend:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Power_supply_rejection_ratio


http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=6&ved=0CDAQFjAF&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.designers-guide.org%2FDesign%2Fbypassing.pdf&ei=lBH_UrWFEoOBygG6r4CQAw&usg=AFQjCNFhMrTYPZBaS7VTuaInXTOxWs3_yw

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Filter_capacitor

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=8&ved=0CEMQFjAH&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.analog.com%2Fstatic%2Fimported-files%2Ftutorials%2FMT-101.pdf&ei=hhP_UuiUA8KsyAGOzIHIDA&usg=AFQjCNH4P5gglHoreCDuUP2zfcTioFwCbA

http://www.techtransfer.com/resources/wiki/entry/2689/

Here are some background sources on how power supply design is used to reject noise

Cheers

Some of these links are good.
What I was very subtly getting at was the caps in the photo may be MASSIVE, but you also need to be able to reject and suppress very high frequency noise.
As some of your links point out, big electrolytic capacitors are not going to do it.
They are actually inductive at very high frequencies.

 

[jimmers]

Personally, I think the better analogy is astronomer Fred Hoyle, who coined the term "Big Bang Theory,"..

Was he one of the script writers?

 

[ab initio]

Some of these links are good.
What I was very subtly getting at was the caps in the photo may be MASSIVE, but you also need to be able to reject and suppress very high frequency noise.
As some of your links point out, big electrolytic capacitors are not going to do it.
They are actually inductive at very high frequencies.

 
While what you are saying is technically correct, I think you are missing the point. The jumbo electrolytic caps are very effective at filtering out noise in the audio-frequency range (< 20 kHz). The effect you mention regarding inductance at high frequency isn't relevant until you approach the megahertz range (See the analog devices tutorial I linked above). The high frequencies are rejected using small (picofarad--microfarad range) ceramic or tantalum capacitors placed in close proximity to the active devices in the circuit. Go back and take a careful look at the Schiit circuit and you'll see numerous small capacitors near the active devices. These reject the high frequency noise and suppress high frequency (MHz, inaudible) ringing.
 
The reason I pointed out the large filter cap's is because 1) they're huge and laypeople can even find them in the picture and 2) they reject the noise in the power line at the audible frequencies.
 
Also, this is a little off topic in a thread about USB-standard passing cables deteriorating sound  in USB devices. I'm saying that 1) it's highly unlikely for a usb cable to have an audible affect and 2) if it does, it's not the cable's fault; rather, the usb device or computer usb controller is a piece of junk.
 
A well-designed modern asynchronous usb dac can be had for under $100 and the choice of usb cable, as long as the cable is standard compliant, has no affect on the resulting sound. The data is delivered error-free and the power is supplied.
 
Cheers

 

[Chris J]

While what you are saying is technically correct, I think you are missing the point. The jumbo electrolytic caps are very effective at filtering out noise in the audio-frequency range (< 20 kHz). The effect you mention regarding inductance at high frequency isn't relevant until you approach the megahertz range (See the analog devices tutorial I linked above). The high frequencies are rejected using small (picofarad--microfarad range) ceramic or tantalum capacitors placed in close proximity to the active devices in the circuit. Go back and take a careful look at the Schiit circuit and you'll see numerous small capacitors near the active devices. These reject the high frequency noise and suppress high frequency (MHz, inaudible) ringing.

The reason I pointed out the large filter cap's is because 1) they're huge and laypeople can even find them in the picture and 2) they reject the noise in the power line at the audible frequencies.

Also, this is a little off topic in a thread about USB-standard passing cables deteriorating sound  in USB devices. I'm saying that 1) it's highly unlikely for a usb cable to have an audible affect and 2) if it does, it's not the cable's fault; rather, the usb device or computer usb controller is a piece of junk.

A well-designed modern asynchronous usb dac can be had for under $100 and the choice of usb cable, as long as the cable is standard compliant, has no affect on the resulting sound. The data is delivered error-free and the power is supplied.

Cheers

I can see where this is going.
No thank you.
Regards,
Chris

 

[CJs06]

 
Also, this is a little off topic in a thread about USB-standard passing cables deteriorating sound  in USB devices. I'm saying that 1) it's highly unlikely for a usb cable to have an audible affect and 2) if it does, it's not the cable's fault; rather, the usb device or computer usb controller is a piece of junk.
 
A well-designed modern asynchronous usb dac can be had for under $100 and the choice of usb cable, as long as the cable is standard compliant, has no affect on the resulting sound. The data is delivered error-free and the power is supplied.

 
My experience confirms what you are saying. I used to use an old 3ft USB A cable to connect my PC to my Modi and after a while, I would get lots of jitter to the point where the device wouldn't be recognized by Windows anymore. I swapped out the cable for a new shorter USB A cable and voila, problem solved, all the 1s and 0s made it to the DAC without error.

 

[realkandar]

i'm using my usb audiophile cable make from e-sata 3 GB. the sound was excellent.

 

[ampair]

  i'm using my usb audiophile cable make from e-sata 3 GB. the sound was excellent.

nice job, i like it!
 
but i'm sure that a double-shielded silver plated ofc sata6g cable, handcrafted by little audiophile virgin fairies, would sound muuuuuuuch better

 

[realkandar]

  nice job, i like it!
 
but i'm sure that a double-shielded silver plated ofc sata6g cable, handcrafted by little audiophile virgin fairies, would sound muuuuuuuch better

thanks you sir.
yes...more much better is with sata 6 GB. and i has craft with all of sata, started with sata 1,5 GB U/ 6 GB. it's amazing. and who know..if sata can we modified became audio cable. all of my audio stuff using sata cable, cause its has good spec.

 

[ab initio]

  thanks you sir.
yes...more much better is with sata 6 GB. and i has craft with all of sata, started with sata 1,5 GB U/ 6 GB. it's amazing. and who know..if sata can we modified became audio cable. all of my audio stuff using sata cable, cause its has good spec.

 
What on earth are you talking about? You have "audiophile" cables for your hard disk?
 
I am seriously confuzzled right now.

 
 
Cheers

 

[realkandar]

   
What on earth are you talking about? You have "audiophile" cables for your hard disk?
 
I am seriously confuzzled right now.

 
 
Cheers

hai..  cheers.
i mean, i have usb audiophile cable made from SATA cable. really..it's work.
i'm modified the head of cable become usb A-B.

 

[zool]

I'm no expert. But wouldn't the +5VCC cable ideally be separately shielded from data+/- and gnd? To minimize jitter or interference.

 

[zool]

The reason why I'm asking is as a cable maker myself I would think that the thin Data +, data - wires would be subject to some noise from the +5V cable that it's tightly wrapped around them. Almost no standard USB cable have them separately shielded but allot of "hifi"-based" USB chords do. From what I understand.. When transferring files for example, this is not as sensitive because of the USB protocol that uses various methods like CRC check sums to find errors and either correct them or have that packet of data resent. And in the end this will not be very noticeable when transferring files etc. But with audio it is not that simple. With audio the CRC check sums methods etc causes jitter which can be audible from what I understand.
 
This is just of course my speculation. I have not tested enough hifi USB cables to be able to say if they made any difference or not. But I was going to build one and I started thinking about this... Anyway, kind of old thread. Maybe no one cares about this any more .

 

[ab initio]

With audio the CRC check sums methods etc causes jitter which can be audible from what I understand.

Why would that be the case? There is no reason to expect that. Either a data packet arrives sufficiently intact that the original data is completely derived from the 10/8 encoding, else the whole packet is dropped. Nowhere in there is "jitter" added. Especially since any modern Asynchronous DAC reclocks the audio anyway.

Cheers

 

[zool]

Why would that be the case? There is no reason to expect that. Either a data packet arrives sufficiently intact that the original data is completely derived from the 10/8 encoding, else the whole packet is dropped. Nowhere in there is "jitter" added. Especially since any modern Asynchronous DAC reclocks the audio anyway.

Cheers

What is the difference between digital signal sent through usb or digital sent through spdif or AES/EBU? They are all digital 1's and 0's, correct? And if those other standards are subject to noise and jitter what makes usb so magical that it totally is immune to this? A good article to read about what jitter actually is and what effect it has -> http://www.stereophile.com/reference/1093jitter/.
 
I'm not trying to start a flame war or any thing. I just want it explained to me what makes usb so different from other digital wires used in audio. And why it would not be subject to noise and interference caused by electrical wires for example.