or Connect
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav:

Gah. 'Audiophile' USB Cable. - Page 5

post #61 of 191
Dude, re-read what you quoted. What i said was silly was the fact that amongst all the 'science' people who do not believe that cables make a difference only stopped at the hypothesis stage. Seriously, i've not edited it.
post #62 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

Dude, re-read what you quoted. What i said was silly was the fact that amongst all the 'science' people who do not believe that cables make a difference only stopped at the hypothesis stage. Seriously, i've not edited it.

Maybe if you put some evidences that clearly suggest that only USB cables themselves to be the cause of some kind of change in sound I might change my mind, otherwise, I could only depend on my existing knowledge.

post #63 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

Dude, re-read what you quoted. What i said was silly was the fact that amongst all the 'science' people who do not believe that cables make a difference only stopped at the hypothesis stage. Seriously, i've not edited it.

Go read the USB audio thread in the science forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/554008/dont-get-why-audiophile-usb-cable-would-improve-sound-quality

A year and a half of discussion with 835 posts with plenty of evidence, there's no need for me (or anyone else) to fulfill your desire for acceptance that you feel that your USB audio cables provides better audio. It's been thoroughly discussed already. If you want to deny the science after you have digested it all, that's up to you. If you gain satisfaction out of your USB cables, good for you.
post #64 of 191

Could I add "Creationism" into the mix?

Or would that be slightly OT ?

post #65 of 191
Plenty of links have been posted plus a number of members have posted their experiences and impressions with regards to usb cables. I could recount my experiences but it seems that to a lot of people who can see for themselves without any costs will continue to flatly refuse any possibility.

So fine. If you choose to believe that if something cannot be measured, then it does not exist, that's fine by me. I have a different view.
post #66 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

Plenty of links have been posted plus a number of members have posted their experiences and impressions with regards to usb cables. I could recount my experiences but it seems that to a lot of people who can see for themselves without any costs will continue to flatly refuse any possibility.

So fine. If you choose to believe that if something cannot be measured, then it does not exist, that's fine by me. I have a different view.

 

If something cannot be measured, how could I know it exists in the first place?

 

Give me one link that provide evidence that, isolates all other variables, shows that only a change in cable cause sonic differences, with specific explanation on how the difference occurred, then I would immediately change my mind.

post #67 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by cel4145 View Post

Go read the USB audio thread in the science forum: http://www.head-fi.org/t/554008/dont-get-why-audiophile-usb-cable-would-improve-sound-quality

A year and a half of discussion with 835 posts with plenty of evidence, there's no need for me (or anyone else) to fulfill your desire for acceptance that you feel that your USB audio cables provides better audio. It's been thoroughly discussed already. If you want to deny the science after you have digested it all, that's up to you. If you gain satisfaction out of your USB cables, good for you.

It doesn't seem too different from this thread. Only a relatively small number of posters quoting the same thing over and over then arriving at a false dichotomy that it's either placebo or a refusal to admit to a wasted purchase.

I'm not saying I understand why it makes a difference. Missing 1's and 0's are unlikely but a lot has been said about jitter and a few other factors which may contribute to what is heard. I was curious whether there is any difference. Now I am open to finding out what might have caused those differences. Placebo is a possibility, but more than one person has remarked on the change who did not know what I did to the system. Is that beyond statistical doubt? No. But it would be one hell of a placebo effect to take place while the subject was unaware about any change at all.
post #68 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0day View Post

If something cannot be measured, how could I know it exists in the first place?

Give me one link that provide evidence that, isolates all other variables, shows that only a change in cable cause sonic differences, with specific explanation on how the difference occurred, then I would immediately change my mind.

Detection and measurement are two different things. I can detect light in my room but i do not have the tools to measure its intensity or other properties, for example.

As for measurements, didn't 00940 posted something along those lines?

-- added text below --

Before anyone says that those measurements are for cables only, not the system.. This is what i posted elsewhere earlier:

As for how much the differences between cables manifest themselves at the speakers depends a lot on a number of factors. If you place a pair of headphones in a well and mic the sound from above the well, there's not going to be a lot of difference between headphones. I don't disagree that these differences (on cables) are may be due to simple factors like shielding and separation. But the bottom line is, there are differences among cables. Whether or not it is hearable is another matter.

Actually, this is where science comes in. Several of the seminars i've watched talk about limits of hearing. And how we are still learning about what we can or cannot hear. A lot of things remain without explanation - and this is from someone who design dac chips so i know he knows what he's talking about. While this is beside the point, what i'm saying is, somethings we cannot explain actually exist.
Edited by x838nwy - 2/13/14 at 9:27pm
post #69 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

Plenty of links have been posted plus a number of members have posted their experiences and impressions with regards to usb cables. I could recount my experiences but it seems that to a lot of people who can see for themselves without any costs will continue to flatly refuse any possibility.

So fine. If you choose to believe that if something cannot be measured, then it does not exist, that's fine by me. I have a different view.

Plenty of people have also posted about how buying a hundred dollar fuse made a big change to their DACs. Generally when you spend money on something, you want it to make thing better. In this hobby, for alot of things, it doesn't. It's not a hypothesis, it is proven fact not only because "science says so" but also because many MANY people have spent DECADES testing everything, wishing, praying, hoping science was wrong, yet they came to the conclusion it wasn't. I've read about alot of tests (I won't speak of their nature so as not to break forum rules), and every single test I've read (from literally dozens and dozens of them) had the same conclusion. That's hundreds if not thousands of people who THOUGHT they could differentiate good vs bad BEFORE who couldn't anymore at all, and very often picked the cheap gear as best sounding instead of the usual expensive one (from THEIR own system, expensive gear they were adamant made a BIG difference before). I think that simply speaks for itself.

post #70 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by z3r0day View Post
 

 

If something cannot be measured, how could I know it exists in the first place?

 

Give me one link that provide evidence that, isolates all other variables, shows that only a change in cable cause sonic differences, with specific explanation on how the difference occurred, then I would immediately change my mind.

 

Something can be measured and not be audible ;-)

 

The article I quoted earlier (you'll have to buy the old Hifi News issue, it never went on the web) shows that differences exists. Different usb cables, all other things being kept equal, caused variations of a few hundred pS in jitter. Such variations can easily be explained in terms of power supply interactions. Even more so since one of the better performing cables had a ferrite ring on it.

 

But a few hundred pS of differences aren't something you can prove to be audible.

post #71 of 191
elmoe

I think you're talking from experience and i can see where you're coming from. Fact of the matter is, sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not and sometimes there is no difference. The rest of the time is what you prefer.
I've wasted my fair share of money on tweaks. What i've found is that sometimes it's hard to say if there is anything in between a and b. But every now and again it's very clear.
For example right now i'm having a hard time choosing between the usb and the bridge connection on my pwd. I also cannot tell any difference between a couple of power cords i've tried on my amp. One of the power cords improved the mjolnir, however. But the usb cable difference is far from subtle. I'd say the change is bigger than other interconnects i've tried.
Lastly, it is an interesting point you make when you suggest that a few years down the road all this would show itself up as a folly. I don't know you and you don't me, but i'm not in this for flashiness or the ability to pat myself on the back for being able to hear the difference. And while i'm quite new to all this computer music, i'm not exactly new to hi-fi in general. Gyrodec, NAC72/135, Sonus Faber. That's where i'm from so i know mpingo discs when i see them. So i'm not the type to jump into the latest obscure mod/fad out there. Again i'd recommend people try it out. What's to lose?

@ 00940

I read somewhere that there are various types of jitter and the jury is still out on what is and what is not audible.
Edited by x838nwy - 2/14/14 at 3:18am
post #72 of 191
Plug in a cabledyne USB cable...
30days return policy.
For those itching to LISTEN instead of READING.
post #73 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by x838nwy View Post

elmoe

I think you're talking from experience and i can see where you're coming from. Fact of the matter is, sometimes it's obvious, sometimes not and sometimes there is no difference. The rest of the time is what you prefer.
I've wasted my fair share of money on tweaks. What i've found is that sometimes it's hard to say if there is anything in between a and b. But every now and again it's very clear.
For example right now i'm having a hard time choosing between the usb and the bridge connection on my pwd. I also cannot tell any difference between a couple of power cords i've tried on my amp. One of the power cords improved the mjolnir, however. But the usb cable difference is far from subtle. I'd say the change is bigger than other interconnects i've tried.
Lastly, it is an interesting point you make when you suggest that a few years down the road all this would show itself up as a folly. I don't know you and you don't me, but i'm not in this for flashiness or the ability to pat myself on the back for being able to hear the difference. And while i'm quite new to all this computer music, i'm not exactly new to hi-fi in general. Gyrodec, NAC72/135, Sonus Faber. That's where i'm from so i know mpingo discs when i see them. So i'm not the type to jump into the latest obscure mod/fad out there. Again i'd recommend people try it out. What's to lose?

 

Well, more power to you if you believe there is an audible difference caused by the cable itself. I've done enough testing myself throughout the years to know that it is never the cable itself that changes the sound so long as the cables used are all properly built, and like you, I will base my opinion upon my own experiences (and of course, since they seem to be substantially backed up by the cold hard facts, I tend to lean even more towards them).

 

As a last suggestion (and suggestion only), I would read this thread and the article quoted in the first post: http://www.head-fi.org/t/481415/what-if-the-audio-critic-is-completely-right-what-would-you-own


Edited by elmoe - 2/14/14 at 4:02am
post #74 of 191
If a power cord on tye mjolnir affected its performance, then you should contact Jason for a repair. Thier power supply sections are seriously over-designed to appeal to the strictest audiophile expectations and rule out audibility in even the worst-case-scenario.

http://schiit.com/products/mjolnir
The design specs are listed on their website. Their power amp section has more filter capacitence for this 8W amp than my 100W guitar amp!

Look at this thing!
mjolnir_01_11.jpg

I have huge respect for schitt that they show their board layout in detail. The design principles are solid.

Cheers
post #75 of 191
Quote:
Originally Posted by ab initio View Post

If a power cord on tye mjolnir affected its performance, then you should contact Jason for a repair. Thier power supply sections are seriously over-designed to appeal to the strictest audiophile expectations and rule out audibility in even the worst-case-scenario.

http://schiit.com/products/mjolnir
The design specs are listed on their website. Their power amp section has more filter capacitence for this 8W amp than my 100W guitar amp!

Look at this thing!
mjolnir_01_11.jpg

I have huge respect for schitt that they show their board layout in detail. The design principles are solid.

Cheers

I did, i asked him about fuses too. I tried the cord on the mjolnir cos in its intended home it did't do anything. So it just ended up there. I noticed a change but only after i changed cords to a stock one and felt something was amiss. A quick a/b confirmed it (well to my ears).

Jason said he doesn't think it's possible. I can't remember his exact words but generally he's not a guy who believes in cables. He does use Straightwire cables for his stuff though.

The fact that there was an improvement doesn't mean it was poorly designed. I don't know how you link the two factors together. The cable is a pangea 14se i think if you want to try it out.
Edited by x838nwy - 2/14/14 at 6:21am
New Posts  All Forums:Forum Nav: