[Longfellow78]

Youve got a lot going on in that post. So many variables.

1. Velour pads can be tricky. Its a breathable material that could create new complications depending on the foam used inside the pads. The foam inside would need to be closed-cell or of very low air flow to maintain characteristic sound of non-permeable pad materials like leather.

I tried the Shure pads with Mayflower mod on a T50RPmk3. Did not care for the sound of Mayflower nor the comfort of Shure. Mayflower mod uses a custom foam that essentially seals the front-side vents underneath the pads. This leads to a very warm + bassy signature. The Shure pads are also on the smaller side and I didnt like the feel of the fabric material.

Im a big fan of the T60RP pads. I like the sound and feel. T60RP pads are thin but not so thin as to be supraaural which effects sound and comfort.

Tuning to taste is part of what makes modding worthwhile. Cant be sure what mod to recommend to you exactly because dont know your hrtf, preferences, average spls, upstream gear, music, etc.

You know T50RPmk4 is about to drop. Maybe just wait a bit as it may be completely “better” than mk3.

Thanks for the quick and comprehensive post. I had the mayflower baffles on my t60rp (which I sold). Yes the bass was very bloated but the argons also have sealed front ports and so do all mk2s but don't have that bloat. I wonder if the different paper on the back of the driver makes it have more bass to compensate but the open ports allow more breathing.

Anyway. I'm thinking as I'm after mid bass and mids and some treble sparkle, but less bass I should keep those ports open. The shure pads I assume are quality but who knows. I am OK with the t60 pads but I was guessing they would mill limit the sound stage.

I am very unsure what damping the backside of the baffles does, nor covering the frontisde with felt. The argons are widely regarded as the best t50/60 mod but have no clay damping on the back of the baffles and nor do the mad dogs. Everyone seems to do this but to my knowledge this comes from the mayflower mod which is not even that highly regarded....

 

[Longfellow78]

The best way is to try the mods described in thread yourself. There are other threads too like on sbaf that might be more easily digestible.

The fastest way is paying someone else but who knows if youll like their tuning and is overpriced considering you can diy to your preferences. Here is a compendium of pro tuner mods impressions and measures that might help.

What are your preferred mods?

 

[Philimon]

Thanks for the quick and comprehensive post. I had the mayflower baffles on my t60rp (which I sold). Yes the bass was very bloated but the argons also have sealed front ports and so do all mk2s but don't have that bloat. I wonder if the different paper on the back of the driver makes it have more bass to compensate but the open ports allow more breathing.

You are right. mk2 and mk3 very different and require different mods.

The argons are widely regarded as the best t50/60 mod but have no clay damping on the back of the baffles and nor do the mad dogs. Everyone seems to do this but to my knowledge this comes from the mayflower mod which is not even that highly regarded....

Disagree. Phuck pro modders that charge $4-500 for installing bits of foam that you can do yourself in minutes.

 

[Philimon]

What are your preferred mods?

That’ll cost you $400

edit: Ive posted before several places. Let me look for link.

edit2:
- T20RPmk3, each model is slightly different and so different mods. I prefer T20RPmk3 for my tastes and ease and cost.
- remove driver rear damping filter paper
- install T60RP pads
- place a bit of damplifier pro on baffle and cups
- add some very light stuffing in cups if you wish, just be careful as its easy to induce channel imbalance though its already usually biased one way due to asymmetry of cups. For this Ive use two sets of T20RP to make symmetrical cups but had to install own wire connectors.

 

[Longfellow78]

That’ll cost you $400

edit: Ive posted before several places. Let me look for link.

edit2:
- T20RPmk3, each model is slightly different and so different mods. I prefer T20RPmk3 for my tastes and ease and cost.
- remove driver rear damping filter paper
- install T60RP pads
- place a bit of damplifier pro on baffle and cups
- add some very light stuffing in cups if you wish, just be careful as its easy to induce channel imbalance though its already usually biased one way due to asymmetry of cups. For this Ive use two sets of T20RP to make symmetrical cups but had to install own wire connectors.

Thanks for post. I am going to install dual trs connectors for balanced and block up the existing port so imbalance should be less of a problem. Removing covering over bass port to make it a t20 also not a problem. I have the t60rp pads already. I have a lot of paxmate so assume I can use this instead of dampifier? You say on the baffle. Do you mean the back side only? This would make it a bit like the optional damping for the 50th anniversary. Do you favour that over clay? If the back side only what do you think about felt on the front side a la argons, and or the existing foam damper without blocking up the driver ports. This sounds pretty good tbh. What type of sound sig would this be. I'm guessing very clear mids and highs. Nice bass but not too heavy with Moderate soundstage. Am I right?

 

[Philimon]

Thanks for post.

No problem. Sorry I cant be more help. As you said, all the mod info is around, just a lot of sifting. I recommend the sbaf mk3 thread and open alpha thread for perhaps denser info.

Removing covering over bass port to make it a t20 also not a problem.

Not sure which part you are referring to by “bass port”. “Bass port” was common terminology for mk2 but no so much mk3 as the parts are not the same. Im guessing youre referrering to the vents on the back-side of the cups.

I have a lot of paxmate so assume I can use this instead of dampifier?

I dont know the efficacy of paxmate vs Damplifier Pro or the pros and cons of each or if any of it really makes a difference or if its placebo.

You say on the baffle. Do you mean the back side only?

Yes the back-side / inside the cups. The front-side of baffle there is no space.

the back side only what do you think about felt on the front side a la argons, and or the existing foam damper without blocking up the driver ports.

Argons place felt on front-side? I try to avoid covering front of driver, if necessary then save for last after exhausting all other options. Front-side filter to me irritates my audiophile nervosa.

Ive never actually owned a T40RP so am unsure. Ive had the rest though outside of pro mods like Argon. T40RP front-side foam damper I imagine is of different porosity / air-flow, most are seemingly unique to model, same with rear cup vent filter.

 

[Longfellow78]

No problem. Sorry I cant be more help. As you said, all the mod info is around, just a lot of sifting. I recommend the sbaf mk3 thread and open alpha thread for perhaps denser info.


Not sure which part you are referring to by “bass port”. “Bass port” was common terminology for mk2 but no so much mk3 as the parts are not the same. Im guessing youre referrering to the vents on the back-side of the cups.

Yes sorry I meant the rear vent.

I dont know the efficacy of paxmate vs Damplifier Pro or the pros and cons of each or if any of it really makes a difference or if its placebo.

Paxmate looks a little thicker but I think they do the same job.

Yes the back-side / inside the cups. The front-side of baffle there is no space.


Argons place felt on front-side? I try to avoid covering front of driver, if necessary then save for last after exhausting all other options. Front-side filter to me irritates my audiophile nervosa.

Oh yes. Argons have significant mods to the front side of the baffle. Firstly there is a 1mm layer of felt around the driver in the inner/lower depression. Then there is a piece of impermeable looking foam ring similar size to the t60 porous foam ring covering the front side bass ports and then there is a heavily applied black hard silicone/rubber adhesive that seals the foam ring and squishes into the base ports sealing it all up. Tbh this is pretty sloppily applied and I don't see the need for the foam ring seeing as it is crammed with adhesive.
Attached is a pic someone else posted online if it.

Then there is another piece of 1mm felt over the whole other front side of the baffle. See other pic same guy posted.

THEN in my 1.1 version argons there is another piece of thick 3mm looking adhesive felt stuck around the driver filling up the centre section, making it flat with the outer layer.

I'm short the argon has probably more or just as much mods to the front side of the baffle as to the cup (no mods to back of baffle).

Ive never actually owned a T40RP so am unsure. Ive had the rest though outside of pro mods like Argon. T40RP front-side foam damper I imagine is of different porosity / air-flow, most are seemingly unique to model, same with rear cup vent filter.

So I believe from my reading and ownership. The t20 has an open rear port, and the most porous/open foam baffle ring. The t40 and t50 have the same density foam front baffle ring around the driver, but t40 has impermeable tape over the rear port, and t50 has light felt over rear port. T60 has thicker felt over rear port.

 

[Philimon]

Yes sorry I meant the rear vent.

Paxmate looks a little thicker but I think they do the same job.


Oh yes. Argons have significant mods to the front side of the baffle. Firstly there is a 1mm layer of felt around the driver in the inner/lower depression. Then there is a piece of impermeable looking foam ring similar size to the t60 porous foam ring covering the front side bass ports and then there is a heavily applied black hard silicone/rubber adhesive that seals the foam ring and squishes into the base ports sealing it all up. Tbh this is pretty sloppily applied and I don't see the need for the foam ring seeing as it is crammed with adhesive.
Attached is a pic someone else posted online if it.

Then there is another piece of 1mm felt over the whole other front side of the baffle. See other pic same guy posted.

THEN in my 1.1 version argons there is another piece of thick 3mm looking adhesive felt stuck around the driver filling up the centre section, making it flat with the outer layer.

I'm short the argon has probably more or just as much mods to the front side of the baffle as to the cup (no mods to back of baffle).


So I believe from my reading and ownership. The t20 has an open rear port, and the most porous/open foam baffle ring. The t40 and t50 have the same density foam front baffle ring around the driver, but t40 has impermeable tape over the rear port, and t50 has light felt over rear port. T60 has thicker felt over rear port.

Interesting info on the pro mods. Thanks. To me, just a different tuning that might meet your preferences but not “better” or worth paying for.

T20 has an effectively open rear cup vent, but doesnt have the most open / porous / highest airflow foam baffle ring. The most open foam baffle ring goes to T60RP. TH500RP is denser than T60RP but am unsure how TH500RP compares exactly to T20RP etc as did not own at same time. T60RP feels and looks most different from the rest, very thin and light relatively (see sbaf t60rp thread for pic). No clue on T60RP cup rear vent filter, its been too long and I didnt remove to test. From memory, T50RPmk3 cup rear vent filter has zero effect just like T20RP’s… they are just dust filters as far as I can tell.

 

[Longfellow78]

Interesting info on the pro mods. Thanks. To me, just a different tuning that might meet your preferences but not “better” or worth paying for.

T20 has an effectively open rear cup vent, but doesnt have the most open / porous / highest airflow foam baffle ring. The most open foam baffle ring goes to T60RP. TH500RP is denser than T60RP but am unsure how TH500RP compares exactly to T20RP etc as did not own at same time. T60RP feels and looks most different from the rest, very thin and light relatively (see sbaf t60rp thread for pic). No clue on T60RP cup rear vent filter, its been too long and I didnt remove to test. From memory, T50RPmk3 cup rear vent filter has zero effect just like T20RP’s… they are just dust filters as far as I can tell.

Oh yes the t60 has the thinnest/lightest ring. I believe the t20 has a lighter foam ring than the t40 and t50, but I'd be surprised if the supposedly major tuning differences between them are just due to that and not some effect on the rear port. Maybe that's just marketing. Anyway. I think I know what I'm going to try.

It will be t60 pads, paxmate in the cup, remove rear vent cover, add some clay to backside of baffle. Very light cotton wool in cup. Add 1mm felt around the driver for damping. Then put the existing t40 foam ring on top around the driver. Add 1mm felt to rest of front baffle.

See how it is. Then try removing rear driver paper - if you're careful you can reapply this after, and/or different pads.

Main thing is I want great mids, trebles and some sub bass, not worried about big bass. Soundstage nice but not needed due to t60 argons.

Now I think about it, this will basically be similar to the 50th anniversary, with some wool in the cup and some extra felt damping on the front of the baffle.

 

[Philimon]

T20RPmk3 modded
- noise isolation
- very comfortable
- sounds good to boot. Favorite closed-back Ive tried within budget (sub $500) except Ive yet to try very promising mk4 and Audeze Maxwell but soon…

 

[Longfellow78]

So this is the inside of one of my cups. Trs connector installed. Plasticine on the back of the baffle and in the centre. Now I put paxmate all over the inside including the cup walls. I've seen no-one else do this except in the original mad dog mod. The argon t50 also has the entire cup damped, not just the centre. Every DIY modder seems to only do the centre and I'm not sure why. Any ideas why people dont seem to do this? I assumed if the idea if to damp the cheap flexy plastic cup, the more the better? Maybe it reduces the cup volume too much?

I'm going to add a small amount of cotton wool and Thats the inside of the cup done, although not sure whether to leave the vent port open or cover with felt. Thanks

 

[Longfellow78]

So this is the inside of one of my cups. Trs connector installed. Plasticine on the back of the baffle and in the centre. Now I put paxmate all over the inside including the cup walls. I've seen no-one else do this except in the original mad dog mod. The argon t50 also has the entire cup damped, not just the centre. Every DIY modder seems to only do the centre and I'm not sure why. Any ideas why people dont seem to do this? I assumed if the idea if to damp the cheap flexy plastic cup, the more the better? Maybe it reduces the cup volume too much?

I'm going to add a small amount of cotton wool and Thats the inside of the cup done, although not sure whether to leave the vent port open or cover with felt. Thanks

So I finished the headphones. Decided to take the extra damping out if the cup and leave it in the centre. Felt on rear port. Cotton wool, plasticine on the baffle, 1mm felt on the front of the baffle around the outer rim, and regular foam around the driver. With t50rp pads. Tried closing 3 driver ports but didn't like the bloat. Firstly they sound awesome. Less bass and soundstage than my argos but less recessed mids. Very sparkly treble but a bit too sharp. I am treble sensitive and ears hurt after. Any ways to tame the treble a little? Deeper pads maybe? Thanks.

 

[Philimon]

The argon t50 also has the entire cup damped, not just the centre. Every DIY modder seems to only do the centre and I'm not sure why.

Ive seen others do including myself. Some diy modders even transplant to wooden cups, see: “Thunderpants”.

Very sparkly treble but a bit too sharp. I am treble sensitive and ears hurt after. Any ways to tame the treble a little? Deeper pads maybe? Thanks.

You shouldve applied each mod one at a time then tested and noted the differences, then you can decide which variables to add or subtract to reach desired result.

From your pic shared there is clearly glue on the driver rear-side damping filter paper. I would check to see if otherside matches, and if not then channel imbalance may be more prevalent.

Peaky treble you say, with stock flat pads installed? Deeper pads will only add bass and usually more treble. Id try first removing all extra cup filler and vent seals you’ve applied then have a relisten. If now too dark, then Id try using T60RP pads which should have a dramatic effect on treble due to going from supraaural to circumaural. Thirdly, Id remove the driver rear-side damping paper, but there is no going back from that though you can try substitues… And since your paper is effed up from glue anyway then might as well try.

Im guessing youve a lot more reading to do. I discourage reading this thread because so long, try sbaf mk3 thread instead.

 

[Longfellow78]

Ive seen others do including myself. Some diy modders even transplant to wooden cups, see: “Thunderpants”.


You shouldve applied each mod one at a time then tested and noted the differences, then you can decide which variables to add or subtract to reach desired result.

From your pic shared there is clearly glue on the driver rear-side damping filter paper. I would check to see if otherside matches, and if not then channel imbalance may be more prevalent.

Peaky treble you say, with stock flat pads installed? Deeper pads will only add bass and usually more treble. Id try first removing all extra cup filler and vent seals you’ve applied then have a relisten. If now too dark, then Id try using T60RP pads which should have a dramatic effect on treble due to going from supraaural to circumaural. Thirdly, Id remove the driver rear-side damping paper, but there is no going back from that though you can try substitues… And since your paper is effed up from glue anyway then might as well try.

Im guessing youve a lot more reading to do. I discourage reading this thread because so long, try sbaf mk3 thread instead.

Hey. Thanks. Yes both driver papers have the nasty glue on them. Will removing the paper lower the treble? I already am using t60rp pads. I never tried it without the felt over the rear port tho as I thought it would be too bassy. Guess I need to experiment.

 

[freemental]

Hey. Thanks. Yes both driver papers have the nasty glue on them. Will removing the paper lower the treble? I already am using t60rp pads. I never tried it without the felt over the rear port tho as I thought it would be too bassy. Guess I need to experiment.

It's better not to do this. This is an irreversible effect, removing the felt from the back of the drivers will significantly affect the sound (not for the better), and without good damping, distortion will increase