Former Sennheiser engineer Axel Grell made a $200 pair of ANC true wireless earbuds - the TWS/1

[xuan87]

Received this pair of earphones and man, they were the most problematic TWS I have right out of the box.

Initially only the left unit will play unit while the right stays silent (but I know it's functional since there is still the beeping sound as I tap on it) so I did a factory reset.

After the factory reset, the left and right ANC and transparency modes became mismatched (one side will be ANC and the other transparent) so did another factory reset.

That did it, the earphones are finally playing music as they should (and initial impressions are great!).

But here's the issue: I kept getting errors trying to connect to the SoundID app. Followed their errors to re-pair, reset my earphones again, reinstall the app, all didn't work.

Not being able to connect to the SoundID app is a pretty big deal since I won't be able to update the firmware at the bare minimum, not to mention playing with the EQ.

Anyone else encountered the same connection error when trying to connect to the SoundID app?

EDIT: Ok I figured out what was the issue. I was selecting Grell TWS/1 instead of Drop TWS/1 as mine is the drop version. In my defense, the official name is "Drop + Grell TWS/1" and when I search for "Grell", only 1 option popped up and I thought that was the right one.

 

[xuan87]

Well I spoke too soon and cursed myself. Shortly after this post. The right one stopped playing any music and simply keeps repeating "Power On". The left one will play. Doesn't matter if it's my iPhone or iMac, fully charged or not, connected via Bluetooth and/or with the Sound ID app. Sound ID now only tells me Update Failed when I try to change anything, and now sitting here the left one is picking up radio noise for the first time and that's all I can here. Is there some way to hard reset these and hopefully get them working again?

I tried both types of reset as advised on the troubleshooting page and neither thing does anything.

Hard reset is done by pressing your fingers on both side and holding for 10 secs. You can hear some beeping sound at the start, but you don't hear anything at the 10s mark.

After 10 secs, put them back in the case, delete the pairing from your phone, then take them out and re-pair them. That's how I managed to hard reset mine. I also have the same issue as you initially.

 

[robo24]

Hard reset is done by pressing your fingers on both side and holding for 10 secs. You can hear some beeping sound at the start, but you don't hear anything at the 10s mark.

After 10 secs, put them back in the case, delete the pairing from your phone, then take them out and re-pair them. That's how I managed to hard reset mine. I also have the same issue as you initially.

I’ll try that all for the 10th time just in case it finally works. Boy this has been a frustrating 6 months with these things. $15 MPow buds a decade ago didn’t have this amount of problems.

 

[robo24]

Received this pair of earphones and man, they were the most problematic TWS I have right out of the box.

Initially only the left unit will play unit while the right stays silent (but I know it's functional since there is still the beeping sound as I tap on it) so I did a factory reset.

After the factory reset, the left and right ANC and transparency modes became mismatched (one side will be ANC and the other transparent) so did another factory reset.

That did it, the earphones are finally playing music as they should (and initial impressions are great!).

But here's the issue: I kept getting errors trying to connect to the SoundID app. Followed their errors to re-pair, reset my earphones again, reinstall the app, all didn't work.

Not being able to connect to the SoundID app is a pretty big deal since I won't be able to update the firmware at the bare minimum, not to mention playing with the EQ.

Anyone else encountered the same connection error when trying to connect to the SoundID app?

Literally every time they’ve “worked” I’ve had to connect them multiple times. In iOS it will even show them as connected through bluetooth, play Music app and they don’t even show up as an option until I also go to Sound ID and connect there too. Usually a few minute process putting back in the case and starting over.

They sound so great, I really hope they can figure this out and provide stellar customer service in the process.

Update: They're providing a label for me to ship and get replaced. Hopefully I just got a funky pair and this will resolve things.

 

[Evshrug]

RADIO noise? Like, local radio music? I don't think that's even possible with bluetooth headphones, I suppose you mean like a static hiss? Do you think perhaps it's ambient sound being picked up by Transparency mode? I hear a mild hiss when transparency mode is active... and I was able to recreate a situation where I put one earpiece into Transparent mode and the other earpiece in ANC mode. If you turn off Transparency, do you still hear this noise? Is the noise only in one ear?

The left earpiece gets it's audio from the right earpiece's signal, so that's actually good news because you are getting a connection! We believe we've identified the cause of this issue that we've seen in a few samples, and we've been working to sort it out with a firmware update since before the last battery improvement firmware. It's proving a bit tricky... we believe we're going to have to go a bit more custom than the programming provided to us by Qualcomm, but it's been our main drive behind the scenes!

 

[robo24]

RADIO noise? Like, local radio music? I don't think that's even possible with bluetooth headphones, I suppose you mean like a static hiss? Do you think perhaps it's ambient sound being picked up by Transparency mode? I hear a mild hiss when transparency mode is active... and I was able to recreate a situation where I put one earpiece into Transparent mode and the other earpiece in ANC mode. If you turn off Transparency, do you still hear this noise? Is the noise only in one ear?

The left earpiece gets it's audio from the right earpiece's signal, so that's actually good news because you are getting a connection! We believe we've identified the cause of this issue that we've seen in a few samples, and we've been working to sort it out with a firmware update since before the last battery improvement firmware. It's proving a bit tricky... we believe we're going to have to go a bit more custom than the programming provided to us by Qualcomm, but it's been our main drive behind the scenes!

Great to hear. Yeah, it was bizarre to pick up that other noise. Wasn't in transparent mode and there was no background noise at the time. My neighbors aren't close so I rarely hear things not on my property. Only did it that one time so no clue how that could happen. It was similar to using a wireless landline and picking up hearing other people talking on a different line.

I did follow advice to try again with the hard reset and they're actually working again. Not sure why the other times didn't work. Once again they sounded spectacular and the wide, outside the head staging on $200 earbuds blows my mind. Still, best for me to swap for a replacement since such issues arise typically soon after I think everything is fixed for good. I don't imagine (and hope) my experience with the problems is universal or I'd be seeing many more complaints in this thread.

 

[Evshrug]

I know they're not universal issues... but we're still looking into prevention! Obviously, I don't have yours in-hand myself to verify what's going on, but I want to do everything I can to help by remote

Some info about how they work may explain some things for you. The TWS/1 (and TWS1X) actually make two connections with your phone... one is a data connection, which is used for the firmware updates and SoundID commands, which sends packets of data like USB to printers or storage drives, and the other connection is for bitstreaming music data with one of the bluetooth codecs. Sometimes, one of these pairs before the other. Also, the left earpiece connects exclusively to the right earpiece, so there are several connections for the primary earpiece and your phone to manage (older TWS headphones often used magnetic pulses instead of bluetooth). That data connection is added the first time you set up the SoundID app and pair the headphones, you should get a pop-up notification asking permission from you to pair your headphones again. This is normal!

@xuan87
I highly recommend taking your RIGHT earpiece out of the case first (on the LEFT of the case), and both earpieces should be connected to your phone by the time you are done inserting your right earpiece (even if you just took the earpieces out of deep sleep mode). This can also prevent ANC modes from getting out of sync; if they are out of sync, changing between ANC/NAR/Transparency a few times will get them back in sync (I like to turn on ANC, Turn on NAR, Turn off NAR, turn off ANC, and see if they're in sync by that point). I was able to reproduce the ANC out of sync issue by taking the left earpiece out first, closing the lid on my charging case, tapping the left earpiece to activate transparency, and then taking the right earpiece out of the case... so taking the right earpiece out first prevents this for now.

 

[Evshrug]

Axel and our programmer Terry are better at programming and diagnosing system issues than I am... I just have a troubleshooting approach from my previous IT job in a different field

Next up, though, I'm trying to teach myself (almost from scratch!) how to make an animated intro with the grell logo, and then I'll be making a series of videos to educate and showcase grell audio features. First up will be NAR... also, did you know ANC can actually IMPROVE sound quality, not just offer an acceptable trade off between SQ and isolation? Hopefully I'll have the intro and that video ready by the 30th; ideally I'll be making fun stuff for us to talk about on the 10th, 20th, and 30th of every month after that!

 

[Markttp]

RADIO noise? Like, local radio music? I don't think that's even possible with bluetooth headphones, I suppose you mean like a static hiss? Do you think perhaps it's ambient sound being picked up by Transparency mode? I hear a mild hiss when transparency mode is active... and I was able to recreate a situation where I put one earpiece into Transparent mode and the other earpiece in ANC mode. If you turn off Transparency, do you still hear this noise? Is the noise only in one ear?

The left earpiece gets it's audio from the right earpiece's signal, so that's actually good news because you are getting a connection! We believe we've identified the cause of this issue that we've seen in a few samples, and we've been working to sort it out with a firmware update since before the last battery improvement firmware. It's proving a bit tricky... we believe we're going to have to go a bit more custom than the programming provided to us by Qualcomm, but it's been our main drive behind the scenes!

Hi there

Is the white noise in transparency mode something that can be improved via firmware updates?

ANC mode is excellent in this respect so hopeful something can be done to improve transparency mode?

(It is somewhat dampened by using foam tips but I'm preferring silicone tips otherwise, and do find it noticeable either when no audio or low volume listening or speech in a relatively quiet environment.)

Thanks

 

[Evshrug]

@Markttp The short answer is yes, with trade-offs. That seems like a great question to ask Axel directly, when we set up an Ask Me Anything event, and Axel can answer in more detail and provide more insight Right now we’re focused on the connection quality and getting ready for Munich High End, but I want us to do our first AMA very soon after the show!

@Dobrescu George Wow, I just saw your TWS/1 review on audiophile-heaven.com and your stunning photos… you’ve come a long way as a reviewer! Thank you for the kind words, you really made everyone’s day at grell audio!

 

[Dobrescu George]

@Markttp The short answer is yes, with trade-offs. That seems like a great question to ask Axel directly, when we set up an Ask Me Anything event, and Axel can answer in more detail and provide more insight Right now we’re focused on the connection quality and getting ready for Munich High End, but I want us to do our first AMA very soon after the show!

@Dobrescu George Wow, I just saw your TWS/1 review on audiophile-heaven.com and your stunning photos… you’ve come a long way as a reviewer! Thank you for the kind words, you really made everyone’s day at grell audio!

I'm really happy to help!!

I would share it here too, but seems that lately keeping copyrights is important, and head-fi staffs asked me to not share links to my webby here, but no worries, the reviews get thousand of views anyways

On TWS1, I think that it is really nice, and the response to my review have been surprising, lots of people own bought them and like them! I hope I will have the chance to review the heavys headphones too, which seem to be designed with the help of mr. Grell too

 

[Evshrug]

I'm really happy to help!!

I would share it here too, but seems that lately keeping copyrights is important, and head-fi staffs asked me to not share links to my webby here, but no worries, the reviews get thousand of views anyways

On TWS1, I think that it is really nice, and the response to my review have been surprising, lots of people own bought them and like them! I hope I will have the chance to review the heavys headphones too, which seem to be designed with the help of mr. Grell too

Yes, HEAVYS is a separate company, but Axel Grell had some clever ideas about using pairs of drivers and a DSP to tune the sound and lower distortion even better than just a normal EQ could… while also using psychoacoustic perceptions to make them SEEM loud without actually hurting your ears with too much sound pressure. I hope to have my first chance to listen to one of those at Munich’s High End.

I remembered that you quite liked Axel’s IE 800, so I’m glad the TWS/1 was up to your standards and we could show you something new with the ANC The TWS/1 ANC and NAR processing have a special trick up their sleeve… hopefully I make a “good enough” title sequence soon so I can release a little featurette on how grell does ANC, explaining some of the special sauce behind what you already heard and described

 

[Markttp]

@Markttp The short answer is yes, with trade-offs. That seems like a great question to ask Axel directly, when we set up an Ask Me Anything event, and Axel can answer in more detail and provide more insight Right now we’re focused on the connection quality and getting ready for Munich High End, but I want us to do our first AMA very soon after the show!

@Dobrescu George Wow, I just saw your TWS/1 review on audiophile-heaven.com and your stunning photos… you’ve come a long way as a reviewer! Thank you for the kind words, you really made everyone’s day at grell audio!

Thanks for answering. I had a chance to read up a bit on it as I know most devices with such modes add a certain amount of hiss (sorry white noise was the wrong phrase!)

If I had to guess, I'd guess it's to do with needing to amplify (or add gain to, not sure on exact phrases) a very weak original signal which would mean reducing hiss would lead to reduced volume of ambient noise in transparency mode, but yeah, stopping guessing and asking Axel could be an option .

My use case here is going to be uncommon (listening out for crying babies/child in an otherwise silent house late at night), so I'd stress to anyone reading that in a non-quiet environment and not at low volume, the hiss doesn't get in the way of enjoying the earphones.

 

[joe75]

I'm really happy to help!!

I would share it here too, but seems that lately keeping copyrights is important, and head-fi staffs asked me to not share links to my webby here, but no worries, the reviews get thousand of views anyways

On TWS1, I think that it is really nice, and the response to my review have been surprising, lots of people own bought them and like them! I hope I will have the chance to review the heavys headphones too, which seem to be designed with the help of mr. Grell too

I read your review, nice photos and worth reading even if i have a total different experience than yourself.

The earbuds do sound really nice, but i think i prefer to use them with soundid ON not OFF and i also think the ANC is not the best of the TWS.
Also i can only use them with aptx as best codec so far since as you mention they dont support either APTX-HD or LDAC...
I am still using my IE800/S IEM
LHDC is really niche and not even my FIIO Player seems to have it (even if i see an option in the MUSIC FIIO Player app)

Now that the battery drain issue seems to be fixed, i will be using them again soon.

Hope soundid app EQ can improve a bit too and that we will see 1 or 2 more updates before the end of life of the product.

I will try to find an aptx-adaptive/Aptx-HD usb dongle for my Windows PC.



In the Meantime, I give my best wishes to Grell Team for Munich High End Event

 

[Dobrescu George]

Man, all this talk of those IEMs and it reminded me how much I loved the sound of IE800 and how much I still miss them...

Hopefully, one day I will be able to get over the absolutely zero availability of IE800S and hear it