[koven]

I regularly consider the idea of giving up on the Utopias for similar reasons, I have to say.

And it's like there's a thought bubble to my left, saying, "Well, maybe I should keep them around, y'know, as a reference headphone". And then a thought bubble to my right, with an angry reaction: "Keep around a $2000+ dollar headphone just to use as a point of reference to other things? Are you crazy?!"

But then sometimes -- sometimes -- I'll have a listening session with the Utopia, and I'm like, "Whoooaaah. Oh yeah, that's why." And then I keep them for a while longer.

Took the words right out of my mouth.. recently, I've been reaching for the LCD4 over Utopia on most days... but every so often I'll put the Utopia on and I'm quickly reminded why I keep it around..

 

[Sonic Defender]

How lucky you are to have managed to sold them. I tried in France as I really dislike them (no bass, no purity in the trebble, not well balanced), priced twice there are worth but even at 1/3 of the retail price, nobody was really interested as people like much better the Abyss or even the Audeze LCD-4 with it's tremendous cable. And they are right.

What part of France are you in? I spent two weeks last year in Aix en Provence, Marseilles and a few other spots and simply fell in love with that part of the world. I can't wait to go back and spend some time in Annecy. My avatar picture is of me sitting on the wharf in Marseilles.

 

[up late]

How lucky you are to have managed to sold them. I tried in France as I really dislike them (no bass, no purity in the trebble, not well balanced), priced twice there are worth but even at 1/3 of the retail price, nobody was really interested as people like much better the Abyss or even the Audeze LCD-4 with it's tremendous cable. And they are right.

i don't share your opinion of the utopia so i'm not one of those people to whom you're referring. but then again, i don't live in france either.

 

[Nautrachkfriend]

I really dislike them (no bass, no purity in the trebble, not well balanced), priced twice there are worth

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion here but "no bass" seems a little bit harsh.... Especially when there are headphones like the HD800's that actually have a minuscule amount of bass. I do agree though, there could be a little more bass but I think that might ruin the overall sound.

It's also surprising that the Utopia isn't "well balanced" to your ears and has "no purity in treble." I guess that just shows how different human ears can really be, nothing can fit everyone just like clothing. Thanks for the input!

 

[jlbrach]

you are much more negative than i am,i like alternatives better but certainly can see how one would enjoy the utopia sound..

 

[youurayy]

Have to report that Utopia sounds amazingly well with Audio-gd's NFB-11.38 (latest sabre chip).

As for Utopia not having bass -- what are you smoking?

 

[cskippy]

Utopia doesn't have much in the way of sub bass but mid bass is tastefully elevated a couple dB.

Your PMx2, depending on version, should have an almost ideal frequency response. I found the velour pad version that i heard to be almost perfect in terms of FR. The leather pad version has a little extra bass and treble to add some excitement.

Here they are for reference where a flat line with a dip at ~2kHz is neutral:

 

[Swiftfalcon]

I just sold my Utopia and currently own both the Abyss Phi and the Susvara which to my ears are the 2 best HP's available...I admit to never hearing the Stax...i acknowledge the strengths of the utopia....they are efficient,they are comfortable and well built,they are incredibly dynamic and detailed...that said they are for me to closed in and of the TOTL HP's sound most like a headphone....they also do not much the bass of the other HP's particularly the Abyss and LCD-4.....I do not for a moment pretend to be able to assert one of these is objectively better than any other but to me when I put on the Utopia I felt i was listening to a HP while the Abyss and to some degree the susvara sound like you are listening to speakers....simply a different experience

I think if someone with good ears tried the Utopia blindfolded when it first came out they would have mistaken it for an uber high end sealed headphone. Every other flagship strives to transcend the headphone experience whereas Focal just shrugged off the soundstage size aspect.

 

[QueueCumber]

I just sold my Utopia and currently own both the Abyss Phi and the Susvara which to my ears are the 2 best HP's available...I admit to never hearing the Stax...i acknowledge the strengths of the utopia....they are efficient,they are comfortable and well built,they are incredibly dynamic and detailed...that said they are for me to closed in and of the TOTL HP's sound most like a headphone....they also do not much the bass of the other HP's particularly the Abyss and LCD-4.....I do not for a moment pretend to be able to assert one of these is objectively better than any other but to me when I put on the Utopia I felt i was listening to a HP while the Abyss and to some degree the susvara sound like you are listening to speakers....simply a different experience

The soundstage is a real issue for me. On the one hand instruments and voice have a real presence with the Utopia, on the other hand the soundstage has very little scale.
I was just comparing Pink Floyd’s On the Run from DSoTM between the Utopia and the HD820. The HD820 may not rise to the level of presence of the Utopia, but the soundstage scales amazingly well from side to side and front to back with all the sound objects (e.g. footsteps and whirring sounds) moving around the soundstage. The Utopia does not scale objects moving around the soundstage very well at all. My experience with the Susvara is that it ticks both those boxes exceptionally well.

 

[up late]

like most pronouncements about headphones in these forum threads, they can usually be boiled down to personal preference and bias. as i've said more often than i'd like, "sound stage" is not a priority in a headphone for me. if i want that then i'll listen to loudspeakers. while i've heard cans with more spacious presentations than the utopia, i honestly don't find its presentation closed-sounding and it doesn't sound like any closed can that i've heard. i'll refrain from repeating what i think the utopia does so well and remains unmatched by any can - open or closed, that i've encountered thus far.

 

[bidn]

How lucky you are to have managed to sold them. I tried in France as I really dislike them (no bass, no purity in the trebble, not well balanced), priced twice there are worth but even at 1/3 of the retail price, nobody was really interested as people like much better the Abyss or even the Audeze LCD-4 with it's tremendous cable. And they are right.

In my opinion these points are at best gross misrepresentations and at worst plainly wrong..

- bass:
while the LCD4 and Abyss have a deeper subbass, it is plainly wrong that the Utopia would have "no bass" (Moreover the bass of the utopia is much faster and more accurate, i.e. for me a clear winner for super fast, intense and complex music like for many metal genres).

- "no purity in the trebble" in comparing to the LCD 4 and Abyss:
this goes against everyone else's perception and against measured FRs

- "not well balanced" ???

- "in France... nobody was really interested as people like much better the Abyss or even the LC D4":
I happen to be French: the situation is the opposite ...

- "cable of LCD4":
...is quite poor compared to the quality of the Utopia cable.

I think I should mark the " ignore" checkbox...

 

[bidn]

I just sold my Utopia and currently own both the Abyss Phi and the Susvara which to my ears are the 2 best HP's available...I admit to never hearing the Stax...i acknowledge the strengths of the utopia....they are efficient,they are comfortable and well built,they are incredibly dynamic and detailed...that said they are for me to closed in and of the TOTL HP's sound most like a headphone....they also do not much the bass of the other HP's particularly the Abyss and LCD-4.....I do not for a moment pretend to be able to assert one of these is objectively better than any other but to me when I put on the Utopia I felt i was listening to a HP while the Abyss and to some degree the susvara sound like you are listening to speakers....simply a different experience

Hi jlbrach,

I agree with your description of these differences.

Re. the Susvara, I personally don't like the Hifiman sound enough, which I find too relaxed, to put so much money on them.

Re. the Abyss, I would buy one as a complement to my Utopia if it had a normal, easily adjustable and comfortable headband. Hopefully they will improve this or will produce a successor with a "proper" headband. I think that they would sell many more headphones, had they a normal headband.

Practical aspects are also important. So far the unpractical (not stackable) design of the Dave has prevented me from putting money for a Dave, although Dave and Utopia combine so perfectly.

Enjoy your Abyss and Susvara,
bidn

 

[495045]

In my opinion these points are at best gross misrepresentations and at worst plainly wrong..

- bass:
while the LCD4 and Susvara have a deeper subbass, it is plainly wrong that the Utopia w ould have "no bass" (Moreover the bass of the utopia is much faster and accurate, i.e. a clear winner for super fast and complex music like for many metal genres).

- "no purity in the trebble" in comparing to the LCD 4 and Susvara:
this goes against everyone else's perception and against measured FRs

- "not well balanced" ???

- "in France... nobody was really interested as people like much better the Abyss or even the LC D4":
I happen to be French: the situation is the opposite ...

- "cable of LCD4":
is quite poor compared to the quali ty of the Utopia.

I think I should mark the " ignore" checkbox...

That typical of some people (unfortunately quite a few in France) :
They strart agressively :
"In my opinion these points are at best gross misrepresentations and at worst plainly wrong.."

They give their opinion and that's right even if I disagree specially on the cable (Utupia sheer OFC, LCD-4 OCC silver plated)
and then as you disagree with them, they show themselves very intolerant : they only talk with those who agree with them. This is their freedon of speech.
"I think I should mark the " ignore" checkbox..."
Well, just do it.

I happens I'm French and I live in France and have connections with resellers so I have a little idea on how the Utopia sells and how the LC-4 sells. I just give my opinion,
BTW, where have you listened to the Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC ?

 

[495045]

Everyone is entitled to their own opinion here but "no bass" seems a little bit harsh.... Especially when there are headphones like the HD800's that actually have a minuscule amount of bass. I do agree though, there could be a little more bass but I think that might ruin the overall sound.

It's also surprising that the Utopia isn't "well balanced" to your ears and has "no purity in treble." I guess that just shows how different human ears can really be, nothing can fit everyone just like clothing. Thanks for the input!

I've put a like on your post for the "Everyone is entitled to their own opinion"

My opinion tooks into consideration the retail price wich is around 3 times the one off the HD800's.

After having listened to a SACD on me speakers, I tried the Utopia with stock cable.

While on the speaker the bow of the bass was almost "touchable", it was faint on the Utopia. The triangle on the speakers has crystal purity and one can hear the sound of the triangle diminishing untill it no longer exists. On the Utopia, it was not as "crystal-clear" and I couldn' hear the fainting, almost dying of the triangle. Those examples are on very hard to reproduce part of the SACD (which is not a test one)
To summarize I was far less involved in the music than with my speakers

This is my opinion and I should have put it another way as :
- may be there is a mismatch with my phone amp (Moon 430 HA)
- may be there is a mismatch with my cable connexion (I use Chapter Audio Verse 2)
- may be I'get a completely different impression with a better headphones cables
- may that instead of plugging my DAC (PS Audio direcstream) I should
- may be I'd like cans sounding more like speakers and that's why the Abyss AB-1266 Phi CC blew my mind (and would have burnt my wallet)

Has I've already mentionned, would have it been priced $2150 instead of $4300 (retails in France) and furnished with a good stock cable, I would be much much more positive as I'm more positive with the unmodified PM2 that with the PM1 for a matter of price/qiality matter.

I must thank you as your post has made me feeling like trying more. Thanx for your balanced input

 

[up late]

of course everyone is entitled to their own opinion but that doesn't exempt it from being challenged, especially when it is inflammatory. at least you've tried to qualify it somewhat.