[dontfeedphils]

No offense was meant or taken.

It’s print, the nuance isn’t there. I didn’t say it was nor am I accusing you, I’m saying let’s be sure we don’t. I like headfi when it’s fun and informative discussion. I’ve never been a fan of being mean or making someone else look or feel stupid, bad whaterever and I see people talk like that here sometimes.

So I’d like to express to all my feelings on this topic and I apologize in advance for taking this thread to say this.

Nothing I ever say should be taken as a hurtful thing. It will never be meant that way. This is my promise to you all as members of the same hobby, forum and community. I may try to provoke thought but never in a derogatory fashion. I’m not a good dancer, I speak directly because I’ve always spoken directly, I don’t know how to speak indirectly.

When we visit the in-laws in China, I often don’t speak more than ni hao or tell the server what I want to drink or eat. It’s because my direct nature is something they don’t get, it actually frightens them a bit. I also don’t get their dancing around topics and not speaking direct to the subject. I think my in-laws are cool. Our politics aren’t even that different. They love how I drive, I hate how they drive, it’s awesome! I think we live in times where a taste of kindness can go a long way to making someone’s day. If I say something that takes that away from you, tell me, we’ll both benefit from that kind of conversation.

FWIW, I appreciate you taking the time to expound on this a bit, as I've probably taken things you've said in the wrong way before.

 

[dontfeedphils]

In&out, 5guys, The Shack, Shack Shack it’s all the same to me. But I have not tasted a Shack Shack, it could be a game changer

Shake Shack > In & Out > 5 Guys

 

[Thenewguy007]

DAC (probably should be in Level 3).

If anything a DAC should be in level one, right under Headphones/speakers.
A good DAC can make bad 128kbps sound better than CD quality songs from an inferior DAC.

 

[TSAVJason]

I think people feel like it is a dead end hobby when you have to spend 5 figures to get into Summit-fi and as Justin Time has pointed out no one amp to rule them all. Not that Summit-fi was ever inexpensive imo. but it used to feel like you still had some skin in the game in the low 4 figures when I first joined around 6 years ago. I feel if it were not for some members really liking some expensive amps for the hd800 it would have been long gone from Summit-fi and the Lcd-2 is long gone.

It has happened before if I'm not mistaken. The R-10, Original Omega, and Original Orpheus were all released within a few years of each other. That was pretty darn pre internet though. If the internet was more prevalent like it is today I think you would have seen the same backlash. There actually are some posts on here from the beginning of head-fi with people complaining about the price. I'm quite sure Tyll kind of ripped Sony a new one on there expensive offerings. Spritzer was not fond of the He-90.

I honestly think the backlash is natural and has happened before.

That is an understandable perspective.

Here is what I think is possibly being overlooked.

1) R&D isn’t free
2) industrial design isn’t free
3) materials & manufacturing are not free
4) all industries push the boundaries to explore new possibilities in performance
5) life isn’t all about a Buy Now button there is much more it has to offer
6) innovation is what makes mankind who we are.
7) do you really want the world to stand still?
8) Marketing isn’t free
9) Sales isn’t free
10) warranty’s aren’t free.

These are 10 good reasons we see things increase in price. What is eventually free is these technologies trickle down to lower priced products.

 

[TSAVJason]

FWIW, I appreciate you taking the time to expound on this a bit, as I've probably taken things you've said in the wrong way before.

FWIW, that felt good coming from you. Thx & Cheers!

 

[tekkster]

Deleted my R10 comment. I'm starting to stray from the topic of this thread (^-^)

 

[up late]

staying on topic is welcome

 

[meomap]

Ok. Stay on Utopia topic.

Last night swapped out 2 JJ 6V6 tubes from Studio Six and installed 2 JAN Philips 6V6 tubes.
Dam, the voicing.
Getting closer to the singer as if you are the microphone.
Need more burn in and hear more tonight .
Well, $120 for a pair vs 30 bucks for JJ pair.

 

[myhalis]

Not disparaging the amp at all (I am sure it is great) however too frequently people seem to lose the plot. Google the Audio companies Naim and Linn,and the term "source first". It is the mantra of these (and other) audio companies. While having the best amplifier is always an "advantage" - what is THE MOST important part of the audio chain is the SOURCE. One can have the greatest amplifier on the planet however if the source is mediocre - then what is being amplified ie a mediocre unresolved signal - even if with the best amplifier - will always remain mediocre.

Best practice, when allocating funds to spend, is to spend the largest chunk on the source.
So - for example - a Hugo2 fronting a lesser priced amplifier will always sound better than a Mojo fronting a more expensive amplifier.
The Mojo is not capable of resolving what the Hugo2 can - so it does not matter how good the following amplifier is - if the information is not there to begin with an uber amplifier cannot amplify something that is not there to begin with.

You do have a point and this is an important issue but I wonder if this general rule has so many exceptions that cannot be cast as a rule.

For example suppose you have a budget of about $3000. What would you choose?
a)Mojo + Headamp GSX Mk2
b) Yggy and a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2 (the new one that is $500) or another really good sub $1000 amp.

Say if you have an Abyss or an LCD-4 you should probably take a). Mojo is quite capable and the music information will be amplified by the GSX Mk2 with minimal loss.
If you have a Utopia b) will probably be a better option. If you have an Ether Flow? I am guessing here, sorry, as I haven't tried any of these pairings. Or the optimal may be to get a chord qutest and get the $1000 tube amp you rely like for the tonality.

What I am getting at is that there is so much variation in the cost/performance ratio for equipment in the same price range that a general rule like this may not always help you make the best decision for your own preferences.

In my case H2 probably did the job for under 3K but if I had to spend say 8K? A PS Audio Directstream + GSX MK2 or a Hugo 2 + an Alo Studio 6? Is there an always or a likely in the rule? Or a maybe depending on the equipment and my own preferences?

 

[seamon]

You do have a point and this is an important issue but I wonder if this general rule has so many exceptions that cannot be cast as a rule.

For example suppose you have a budget of about $3000. What would you choose?
a)Mojo + Headamp GSX Mk2
b) Yggy and a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2 (the new one that is $500) or another really good sub $1000 amp.

Say if you have an Abyss or an LCD-4 you should probably take a). Mojo is quite capable and the music information will be amplified by the GSX Mk2 with minimal loss.
If you have a Utopia b) will probably be a better option. If you have an Ether Flow? I am guessing here, sorry, as I haven't tried any of these pairings. Or the optimal may be to get a chord qutest and get the $1000 tube amp you rely like for the tonality.

What I am getting at is that there is so much variation in the cost/performance ratio for equipment in the same price range that a general rule like this may not always help you make the best decision for your own preferences.

In my case H2 probably did the job for under 3K but if I had to spend say 8K? A PS Audio Directstream + GSX MK2 or a Hugo 2 + an Alo Studio 6? Is there an always or a likely in the rule? Or a maybe depending on the equipment and my own preferences?

You definitely do not want a Chord DAC for a LCD 4. It tends to make it too warm and reduces its soundstage by quite a lot. Even the Chord Dave + Headamp GSX Mk2 combo was not upto my tastes.

 

[dontfeedphils]

You definitely do not want a Chord DAC for a LCD 4. It tends to make it too warm and reduces its soundstage by quite a lot. Even the Chord Dave + Headamp GSX Mk2 combo was not upto my tastes.

Can't say that I agree with this, unless you're speaking specifically about Mojo. Even then it seems like an overstatement.

 

[McMadface]

Funny, I grew up in LA with In and Out. I much prefer Shack Shack But I have not A/B tested.

In&out, 5guys, The Shack, Shack Shack it’s all the same to me. But I have not tasted a Shack Shack, it could be a game changer

Shake Shack > In & Out > 5 Guys

Sorry guys, but you're wrong. Tyll... I mean Anthony Bourdain... says that the Double-Double is the best so your opinion of what you think you like must be wrong. What you think you're tasting is wrong because I don't taste it that way.

 

[mulveling]

You do have a point and this is an important issue but I wonder if this general rule has so many exceptions that cannot be cast as a rule.
For example suppose you have a budget of about $3000. What would you choose?
a)Mojo + Headamp GSX Mk2
b) Yggy and a Headamp Gilmore Lite Mk2 (the new one that is $500) or another really good sub $1000 amp.

Always go for the better amp - unless you go analog for your main source; then it owns all your money.

 

[meomap]

I also try VPI Classic 1, Chinook phono pa, and Studio Six, Utopia = wonderful analog sound to dIE for.

 

[joseph69]

For example suppose you have a budget of about $3000. What would you choose?
a)Mojo + Headamp GSX Mk2

The GS-X mk2 is $3K alone.