[buzzlulu]

Not disparaging the amp at all (I am sure it is great) however too frequently people seem to lose the plot. Google the Audio companies Naim and Linn,and the term "source first". It is the mantra of these (and other) audio companies. While having the best amplifier is always an "advantage" - what is THE MOST important part of the audio chain is the SOURCE. One can have the greatest amplifier on the planet however if the source is mediocre - then what is being amplified ie a mediocre unresolved signal - even if with the best amplifier - will always remain mediocre.

Best practice, when allocating funds to spend, is to spend the largest chunk on the source.
So - for example - a Hugo2 fronting a lesser priced amplifier will always sound better than a Mojo fronting a more expensive amplifier.
The Mojo is not capable of resolving what the Hugo2 can - so it does not matter how good the following amplifier is - if the information is not there to begin with an uber amplifier cannot amplify something that is not there to begin with.

 

[buzzlulu]

Just goes to show how different people perceive things. The Naim V1 is considered to be less than wonderful on the Utopia by Focal.

I am the biggest Naim fan boy in the world and own the TOTL Naim preamp and amp (the 552/500 - no Statement for me!)

Jason is correct - the V1 when it came out was great and remains quite good. With the passage of time other components have passed it by. Still great....but today there is better.
There is speculation on the Naim forum wondering if Naim will ever update it however maybe not as they are putting all of their development into the Uniti line of integrated streamer/dac/pre/amp all in one systems

 

[T Bone]

While having the best amplifier is always an "advantage" - what is THE MOST important part of the audio chain is the SOURCE. One can have the greatest amplifier on the planet however if the source is mediocre - then what is being amplified ie a mediocre unresolved signal - even if with the best amplifier - will always remain mediocre.
***snip***
Best practice, when allocating funds to spend, is to so it does not matter how good the following amplifier is - if the information is not there to begin with an uber amplifier cannot amplify something that is not there to begin with.

Whole lotta truth in this!

 

[LCMusicLover]

What's the rough dividing line, impedance wise, between what's considered a low output impedance versus a high output impedance amplifier?

There's not really any 'dividing line'. It's really all about impedance-matching with headphones. Ideally, the ratio of the headphone's impedance to the OI of the amp should be at least 8. So an amp with (say) 10 Ohms OI isn't going to pair well (pretty much) any IEMs, which tend to have 16 Ohm impedance, nor with a set of Fostex (25 Ohm impedance) or HifiMan HE-560s (50 Ohm impedance), and it's gonna be right at the edge of acceptable with the Utopia (80 Ohm impedance).

A lot of amp manufacturers don't list OI for their tube amps (e.g., Eddie Current, Woo Audio), so it's all a bit of a guess.

 

[tekkster]

Lol, breaking down my comment point by point seems a little like my “fun” post was taken as me being serious, or maybe incredulous, or me implying there was an issue with a $15k amp.

Not at all.

I was just being humorous at a common observation...
- that things are pricey and i wish my wife let me spend for the sound profiles i want.
- and that it’s kind of fun being among people who have these things.

I’m an old stax guy from when i was living in japan in the 90’s, so, i have no reason to ridicule, demean, or otherwise disparage anyone who chases the sound profiles they like and are willing to spend to chase that ever-elusive holy grail for their preferences.

I don’t think i implied that $7800 for a used dave was a bad deal. I think i implied it was a good deal. Nor did i imply that utopias were equivalent to a passat, in fact i stated a much better car than a passat. Having owned an m3, i’m pretty sure most would agree it’s a great car, as is the porsche 718. I also thought it was clear that i thought the utopias could do amazing things as you go up in other gear along the chain. Really surprised that it could be inferred that i was offended in any way. You seem to have misconstrued everything i said, and even mistaking my m3 statement as a passat.

In re-reading my comment, i’m struggling to figure out how my comment came across in a manner that made you think i “might” be offended. If anything, i was implying that it’s cool to be allowed to participate amongst those who are in the upper echelons of gear usage. But whatever, no biggie. My brand of light humor seems to not work here. All good. I’ll refrain going forward.

 

[TSAVJason]

Lol, breaking down my comment point by point seems a little like my “fun” post was taken as me being serious, or maybe incredulous, or me implying there was an issue with a $15k amp.

Not at all.

I was just being humorous at a common observation...
- that things are pricey and i wish my wife let me spend for the sound profiles i want.
- and that it’s kind of fun being among people who have these things.

I’m an old stax guy from when i was living in japan in the 90’s, so, i have no reason to ridicule, demean, or otherwise disparage anyone who chases the sound profiles they like and are willing to spend to chase that ever-elusive holy grail for their preferences.

I don’t think i implied that $7800 for a used dave was a bad deal. I think i implied it was a good deal. Nor did i imply that utopias were equivalent to a passat, in fact i stated a much better car than a passat. Having owned an m3, i’m pretty sure most would agree it’s a great car, as is the porsche 718. I also thought it was clear that i thought the utopias could do amazing things as you go up in other gear along the chain. Really surprised that it could be inferred that i was offended in any way. You seem to have misconstrued everything i said, and even mistaking my m3 statement as a passat.

In re-reading my comment, i’m struggling to figure out how my comment came across in a manner that made you think i “might” be offended. If anything, i was implying that it’s cool to be allowed to participate amongst those who are in the upper echelons of gear usage. But whatever, no biggie. My brand of light humor seems to not work here. All good. I’ll refrain going forward.

Because we are using written words and not actually getting the real meaning of others statements I wanted to be sure you understood my comment was not meant in anyway other than a discussion. Not to be taken as a conflict or argument.

 

[cskippy]

What's the rough dividing line, impedance wise, between what's considered a low output impedance versus a high output impedance amplifier?

Here is Utopia with 0.1 Ohm OI, 20 Ohm OI, and ~100 Ohm OI:
The treble does get affected a little but there is some variation as I quickly averaged these. The results fro the bass will be accurate.

 

[Justin_Time]

I am the biggest Naim fan boy in the world and own the TOTL Naim preamp and amp (the 552/500 - no Statement for me!)

Jason is correct - the V1 when it came out was great and remains quite good. With the passage of time other components have passed it by. Still great....but today there is better.
There is speculation on the Naim forum wondering if Naim will ever update it however maybe not as they are putting all of their development into the Uniti line of integrated streamer/dac/pre/amp all in one systems

Perhaps, subconsciously, we have been more influenced by the hype than we realize

When CD was first introduced, its sound was touted as being perfect—it is just a bunch of 0 and 1, nothing can go wrong. I knew then that this wasn’t, true because my LPs—surface noises not wistanding—sounded a heck of a lot better than those early CDs. But somehow along the way I forgot all about that and my first reaction to any problem in my system is to blame the HP, the amp or the DAC, but never the digital source.

I have been in Audio for over 30 years and still make the same rookie mistake. Well, experience is the ability to recognize a mistake as you are making it again.

Now, 35 years after the introduction of CD, the digital source remains the limiting factor in many audio systems. Interesting and unexpected.

 

[MacedonianHero]

Here is Utopia with 0.1 Ohm OI, 20 Ohm OI, and ~100 Ohm OI:
The treble does get affected a little but there is some variation as I quickly averaged these. The results fro the bass will be accurate.

Quick question, did you remove the headphones from the dummy head when changing things, or did you leave them still?

 

[meomap]

Just goes to show how different people perceive things. The Naim V1 is considered to be less than wonderful on the Utopia by Focal.

Even though it's nice and lovely to hear $250k Wilson audio speakers at show, I stop going to the show because the prices are out of reach for 2 channel.
Starting with personal hp now.

 

[cskippy]

Quick question, did you remove the headphones from the dummy head when changing things, or did you leave them still?

I pulled from different measurements so they have a little variation but the largest change is in the bass response which is very consistent between measurements and has little impact from adjusting the headphones.

I'll see about doing a back to back measurement tonight all in one take.

 

[TSAVJason]

Perhaps, subconsciously, we have been more influenced by the hype than we realize

When CD was first introduced, its sound was touted as being perfect—it is just a bunch of 0 and 1, nothing can go wrong. I knew then that this wasn’t, true because my LPs—surface noises not wistanding—sounded a heck of a lot better than those early CDs. But somehow along the way I forgot all about that and my first reaction to any problem in my system is to blame the HP, the amp or the DAC, but never the digital source.

I have been in Audio for over 30 years and still make the same rookie mistake. Well, experience is the ability to recognize a mistake as you are making it again.

Now, 35 years after the introduction of CD, the digital source remains the limiting factor in many audio systems. Interesting and unexpected.

You’re system is only as good as the weakest link. More often than not the source is the weekest link but it could be any number of things that cause less than perfect audio

 

[Justin_Time]

Here is Utopia with 0.1 Ohm OI, 20 Ohm OI, and ~100 Ohm OI:
The treble does get affected a little but there is some variation as I quickly averaged these. The results fro the bass will be accurate.

Excellent illustration.

Practically, when I used the excellent Apex Teton (an OTL tube amp with high impedance) with the low-impedance Utopia, I got too much bloom in the bass and some degradation of the midrange. I have none of these problems with the HD800S, which has a very high impedance.

Sometimes, we get lucky and can use simple rules to guide the matching of our gears.

 

[TSAVJason]

Even though it's nice and lovely to hear $250k Wilson audio speakers at show, I stop going to the show because the prices are out of reach for 2 channel.
Starting with personal hp now.

You hear something better than what you have and you decide to stop enjoying the uber expensive benchmarks because in and of themselves they are too expensive for you? Sorry this confuses me.

 

[Justin_Time]

You’re system is only as good as the weakest link. More often than not the source is the weekest link but it could be any number of things that cause less than perfect audio

Jason, we all understand the concept of the weakest link. I was just amazed by the fact that we we