[koven]

After debating between Axios and Lazuli for a while, I ended up w/ a Norne Draug Silver instead and love it! Slightly cheaper as well.

 

[TSAVJason]

Yes I can definitely get behind that - the HD580/600/650 are timeless classics, available for not much scratch (beating inflation over decades), and there are TONS of great older used amps out there to pair them with. The original HD800 is fantastic deal if you like their voicing (not my cup of tea). I agree that the last line of "serious" Headroom amps, circa 2007/2008 (when they can be found) makes for an awesome pairing with any of the classic Sennheisers. A tubey sounding amp can also make a great pair with any of them.

Now to the other topic - I think @Justin_Time 's point was that high-end audio gets borked when it reaches a point where a high price tag becomes the MAIN distinctive feature in the upper tier segment -- i.e. design, engineering and build quality becomes secondary; in fact a lot of these megabuck products measure up very poorly in one or more of these aspects. Then, this hyperinflation "disease" inevitably trickles down to the lower strata, and soon we have an arms race with skyrocketing MSRP prices everywhere. Releases like Hifiman Shangri-la, Sennheiser HE1, Susvara, the MSB electrostatic amp, and now this $4K Kimber cable, have pushed us quite a ways in that direction.

I agree totally. Flagship sales & marketing isn’t a new thing. To my point it’s in almost every industry. Can’t just be a mustang, it’s got to be the Shelby. It can’t just be a corvette, it’s got to be the Z06 etc. I’m not sure who said it this thread so I apologize but these technologies eventually get to lower cost products. Progress does often have a cost associated to it, it’s life! A gallon of gas cost me 23 cents when I started driving, that same gallon costs me $3.83 now. I put that same gallon into a Plymouth GTX at 275 bhp that cost me $1800 and said wow! Now that gallon goes into a Shelby 826 bhp that cost $125k and I say wow. Time marches on

 

[Justin_Time]

Some products are so successful though that they actually are unaffected by inflation. Denon cart's remained the same price for decades. The Technics sl-1200 actually got way less expensive over time. In headphones I think you see it in practically everyone's first headphone the Sony mdr-v6. In totl headphones you see it in the hd600, 650, 800 and 800S.

Mr. Time if you are looking for bang for the buck headphone hi fidelity I highly recommend the Sennheiser hd headphones that I mentioned and a classic headroom amp. The Utopia is great but for those chasing the last few percent. My personal favorite was the hd800 with the wheat field ha-2. Set me back $2k from TTVJ. Really good stuff. Probably didn't hurt I put $750 worth of tubes in it from VTS but still really addictive sound.

Thanks antimatter for you advice.

Yes I like the HD800 and HD800S a lot. I found that the Apex Teton OTL from TTVJ—great people BTW—is the perfect amp for them, though a little pricey.

Have you found a great amp for the Utopia? The GS-X Mk2 is a very, very,good match but I am still looking for something more euphoric, albeit less accurate.

 

[TSAVJason]

I hear you.

I understand the pricing formula pretty well—I was in the Audio retail business for about 5:years—but some of it is also based on what Alan Greenspan called “irrational exuberance” that burst the stock market bubble.

Wait until the next generation of HPs reach $10,000 a pair—we won't have to wait for long—and we will see the market disappear faster than a gambler’s lucky Streak!

I think I have watered enough of other people’s time on the depressing price escalation. Let’s get back to discussing Amps, headphones and Utopia.

Nope! You won’t have to wait long at all. I’m already being asked if I want to take a contract to design a $10k retail set of cans. I frankly don’t care what the retail price is, I’m entertaining the contract because it sounds like a lot of fun. Hahahahaha I also know the well known manufacturer will take some serious heat behind hitting that benchmark. I promise if I take the contract I’ll make it sound like $12.5k ....Cheers!

 

[smodtactical]

For those of you who have heard the HD800S and 650, would you say the Utopia gives you the detail and precision of the 800S with the solid thick bass of the 650 ? This is a sound signature I am after.

 

[koven]

For those of you who have heard the HD800S and 650, would you say the Utopia gives you the detail and precision of the 800S with the solid thick bass of the 650 ? This is a sound signature I am after.

Yes, I sold my HD800S very fast after getting Utopia. It does everything better except soundstage.

 

[Allanmarcus]

There are bars of soap that cost $60

$2800 bar of soap

 

[TSAVJason]

$2800 bar of soap

That’s not just decadent it’s crazy but I’ll try anything once. How much for enough to take a shower? lol

 

[336881]

Thanks antimatter for you advice.

Yes I like the HD800 and HD800S a lot. I found that the Apex Teton OTL from TTVJ—great people BTW—is the perfect amp for them, though a little pricey.

Have you found a great amp for the Utopia? The GS-X Mk2 is a very, very,good match but I am still looking for something more euphoric, albeit less accurate.

The APM-4's are my Utopia/sr-009. I thought about one of those 2 headphones being my one big splurge on audio and I did own the sr-009's for around 4 months. I also had a Teton and hd800. Makes the hd800 sound way more expensive than it is imo. I had some nice Adam a7x's and sub8 speakers but after 5 years of nothing but headphones the speaker bug got me.

I have only demoed the Utopia a few times at meets. It is really nice. The Lcd-4, He1k, Abyss just did not do it for me.

 

[tekkster]

For those of you who have heard the HD800S and 650, would you say the Utopia gives you the detail and precision of the 800S with the solid thick bass of the 650 ? This is a sound signature I am after.

Good question. I don't own either of those headphones. I do have the original HD800, and I consider them very very different sound signature to the Utopia. As I think about it right now, I can't imagine ever selling either of them.

The Utopias I leave on the H2. There is this immediacy, and "superfast vibration" on the Utopia that I can't get enough of for most acoustical music, softer rock, jazz, ensemble, 1-3 instruments kind of song. higher octave vocals really shine with the Utopias too. I've had these for a little while now, and I dig deep through my music to find more and more files that really shine with the Utopias.

The HD800 are left on the iFi Pro iCan. For large symphonies, orchestral music, I almost always reach for the HD800. There's this expansiveness that's hard for me to describe. "bigger soundstage"? Dunno if I'm using the phrase correctly, but there's more "space" between the instruments that I just don't get with the Utopias.

I guess to my untrained and uneducated ears, the HD800 sounds broad and deep but a touch loose'ish (comparatively), while the Utopias sound much closer in, but really "tightly controlled", immediate, fast. By fast, I mean things like snare drums, guitar plucks, all sound much more "real". Gah, I'm probably describing it wrong. Such an incredible, addicting, sound to me.

Anyway, yeah, to me they are very different headphones belonging on very different amps.

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

I am sure that more expensive products will continue to be released. Why let that get you down? It’s in everything you buy. There are bars of soap that cost $60. There are cars that cost millions, it doesn’t stop you from buying affordable soap or buying a car you can afford does it?

Anyone that allows something they can’t afford to stop them from entering an affordable hobby as you refer to it is being a bit silly. You buy what you can afford and enjoy it because you own it. It’s not always about how much you can spend. Not all people have the same disposable cash laying around so obviously not all can afford the uber luxury products.

Exactly! I don't know why folks get so upset when something out of their budget is released, don't hate, appreciate lol. I sure as hell would like to save for a silver Axios, but then again I want another headphone in my collection instead.

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

That’s not just decadent it’s crazy but I’ll try anything once. How much for enough to take a shower? lol

If its you Jason, I would say it will take at least 2 bars...


In other news, listening to the Utopia with the ifi Black Label now and digging it. Listening to one of my favorite albums as well Neil Young's "live at Massey Hall". The 3D function is fascinating to say the least. Seems like it makes Neil's voice higher up in the staging. Anyone have an opinion of the Black Label with the Utopia?

 

[TSAVJason]

If its you Jason, I would say it will take at least 2 bars...


In other news, listening to the Utopia with the ifi Black Label now and digging it. Listening to one of my favorite albums as well Neil Young's "live at Massey Hall". The 3D function is fascinating to say the least. Seems like it makes Neil's voice higher up in the staging. Anyone have an opinion of the Black Label with the Utopia?

Sorry it’s not me. The way to tell is I how hair on my chest. lol

 

[BunnyNamedCraig]

Sorry it’s not me. The way to tell is I how hair on my chest. lol

Haha! My mistake Jason. You can’t find reliable sources these day!

 

[PeteSTRADAMUS]

Haha! My mistake Jason. You can’t find reliable sources these day!

That person was an imposter, this is more like him lmao