[TSAVJason]

Have you ever gone to a movie that all the major reviewers raved about and you thought it sucked? My son and I escape the honey do chorse occasionally and sneak out to the movies. We've gone to movies that had horrible reviews and we both agreed it was a great movie.

I'm not bashing Tyll or any reviewer and if that's how you understand my posts ....let's get that gone right now. I'm also not saying and I apologize for not being totally clear is that I value opinions of all including the beginner .......but from that understand my side of the table. I am generally sitting with someone helping them find their individual nirvana. From this perspective I find the reviewer & consumer equal. What they all say is what they all believe they hear.

 

[alota]

the nice thing is that i read every time about a lot of problems only with expensive headphones(excluding stax sr-009 and i don´t speak about hd-800 because costs 1/4))
and the worst thing is we are feeding this type of market

 

[Allanmarcus]

That's not what I meant Allan and you know it. You know what I meant was his and any other persons opinion is equal in my point of view.

That's exactly what I thought you meant and that is why I wrote what I wrote. I agree that we all have our own opinions, and they are all equally valid. A trusted reviewer opinion, one with a significant following, like Tyll, however, has a much larger market influence than an individual. This is not a hard concept to understand, or even acknowledge.

We are talking about a person who influences that market, not the value of one person's opinion over another. NO ONE is suggesting that Tyll's opinion is more valuable than anyone else's; but whan he writes about a headphone, it can affect the headphone market, especially the momentum for a new headphone.

 

[TSAVJason]

That's exactly what I thought you meant and that is why I wrote what I wrote. I agree that we all have our own opinions, and they are all equally valid. A trusted reviewer opinion, one with a significant following, like Tyll, however, has a much larger market influence than an individual. This is not a hard concept to understand, or even acknowledge.

We are talking about a person who influences that market, not the value of one person's opinion over another. NO ONE is suggesting that Tyll's opinion is more valuable than anyone else's; but whan he writes about a headphone, it can affect the headphone market, especially the momentum for a new headphone.

And to the extent a reviewer influences the market it's easy to comprehend. I don't think the reviewers you or head-if look to are the major influences but in this genre certainly they have significant influence. I've heard many stories about Tyll and this original set of Utopias he tested and reviewed. Don't I recall headroom putting out an almost direct copy of Tyll's review including the graph? They were on the same set of Utopia's? Or their individual samples tested the same? ......this is why I think your individual impression is all that really matters

 

[Allanmarcus]

Have you ever gone to a movie that all the major reviewers raved about and you thought it sucked? My son and I escape the honey do chorse occasionally and sneak out to the movies. We've gone to movies that had horrible reviews and we both agreed it was a great movie.

Have you ever read a review of a movie that said it was great, gone to see it, and it was different from what the reviewer said about? Maybe the ending was completely different or the plot was different. Then you find out the reviewer was actually reviewing a different movie, but got the titles wrong? Then you found out the actual movie, which was good, but not as good as the reviewer made it out to be was a huge success because of the glowing review. Wouldn't that be ironic?

And to preemptively answer your points. The utopia is still great, even if Tyll didn't review the shipping version. The utopia is still very successful. Focal cant make enough of them. We all got that. That isn't the point. Weather we trust or don't trust Tyll isn't the point. The point is simply the irony of the great review, followed by success, followed by the revelation that the version we all got isn't the same as that reviewed.

I'm gonna stop now, and I hope we all do. I should have taken my own advice and left this alone, but I just have such trouble in these situations where someone just doesn't get it or won't even acknowledge the point someone is trying to make. Very frustrating.

 

[paul2qute]

no. i think he's a fair minded and knowledgable reviewer who gives equal weight to subjective impressions and objective data.

If Tyll says a faulty pair of focal utopia headphones are the best in the world then he must be fantastic

 

[TSAVJason]

Have you ever read a review of a movie that said it was great, gone to see it, and it was different from what the reviewer said about? Maybe the ending was completely different or the plot was different. Then you find out the reviewer was actually reviewing a different movie, but got the titles wrong? Then you found out the actual movie, which was good, but not as good as the reviewer made it out to be was a huge success because of the glowing review. Wouldn't that be ironic?

And to preemptively answer your points. The utopia is still great, even if Tyll didn't review the shipping version. The utopia is still very successful. Focal cant make enough of them. We all got that. That isn't the point. Weather we trust or don't trust Tyll isn't the point. The point is simply the irony of the great review, followed by success, followed by the revelation that the version we all got isn't the same as that reviewed.

I'm gonna stop now, and I hope we all do. I should have taken my own advice and left this alone, but I just have such trouble in these situations where someone just doesn't get it or won't even acknowledge the point someone is trying to make. Very frustrating.

Don't feel to much angst if it's me you refer to. I do understand your perspective and point. I hope you understood mine.

As a side note, I'm not so convinced Tyll's test & review sample is a pre-production unit. He received his long after the rest of us did. If I recall correctly it was almost 2 months after the launch & release.

 

[Allanmarcus]

As a side note, I'm not so convinced Tyll's test & review sample is a pre-production unit. He received his long after the rest of us did. If I recall correctly it was almost 2 months after the launch & release.

Thanks Jason,

I was trying to find another way of not saying "defective"

That all said, can you comment on the different measurements? Do you think Focal re-tuned the Utopia after they went into production, so earlier serials might not have the same FR as the current shipping version? Do you think this might simply be due to manufacturing variance? Or do you just not have an opinion on the FR discrepancies?

With much respect,

Allan

 

[TSAVJason]

Thanks Jason,

I was trying to find another way of not saying "defective"

That all said, can you comment on the different measurements? Do you think Focal re-tuned the Utopia after they went into production, so earlier serials might not have the same FR as the current shipping version? Do you think this might simply be due to manufacturing variance? Or do you just not have an opinion on the FR discrepancies?

With much respect,

Allan

The reason I haven't chimed in to that directly is because I'm not sure all the variables are known or have been considered. What if his original test is flawed somehow? Was there a subsequent test in the same unit? How far into full voice was the test unit? Was that test performed in the same fashion? Were the other units at the same or similar burn in points? Did his test/review sample come from the original pre-production review inventory or did it come from production inventory? So many questions that I don't have answers to be able to know the baseline is at least close to similar.

I do think I recollect a testing error on the LCD-4 from Tyll and that Audeze along with a few others pointed that error out. I'm not 100% sure how that came about or what the resolve was. No one is perfect, right?

I am curious but it's not important enough to me to pursue it much further. My only counter to any of this is that for sure the Utopia hit a homerun if not a grand slam. It was already very successful long before his review came out.

If by chance I get the pertinent data someday, I'd be happy to comment but as of now, I'm not sure what we've all been getting has any absolute data.

It is not only ironic, to me, it's frigg'n puzzling.

See you at RMAF Allan and we'll knock back a cold one! For me, that's Vodka or a bottle of water but I can kick back with a good brew now and then

 

[lovethatsound]

Well I've had my utopia for 2 weeks now,and all i say is that their amazing headphones,their a big step up from the hd800.As far as reviews goes,their are alot of utopia reviews out their on you tube,magazines,and most of them say the same thing about the utopia,basically their fantastic,and you know what my ears tell me the same thing.

 

[paul2qute]

The reason I haven't chimed in to that directly is because I'm not sure all the variables are known or have been considered. What if his original test is flawed somehow? Was there a subsequent test in the same unit? How far into full voice was the test unit? Was that test performed in the same fashion? Were the other units at the same or similar burn in points? Did his test/review sample come from the original pre-production review inventory or did it come from production inventory? So many questions that I don't have answers to be able to know the baseline is at least close to similar.

I do think I recollect a testing error on the LCD-4 from Tyll and that Audeze along with a few others pointed that error out. I'm not 100% sure how that came about or what the resolve was. No one is perfect, right?

I am curious but it's not important enough to me to pursue it much further. My only counter to any of this is that for sure the Utopia hit a homerun if not a grand slam. It was already very successful long before his review came out.

If by chance I get the pertinent data someday, I'd be happy to comment but as of now, I'm not sure what we've all been getting has any absolute data.

It is not only ironic, to me, it's frigg'n puzzling.

See you at RMAF Allan and we'll knock back a cold one! For me, that's Vodka or a bottle of water but I can kick back with a good brew now and then

I never go to Hifi shows, they call me no show Paul2 qute,I might not be real just pixels on a screen,not a real person, I think it's good to put a face to a name, feel I need to just turn up and meet the guys

 

[TSAVJason]

Well I've had my utopia for 2 weeks now,and all i say is that their amazing headphones,their a big step up from the hd800.As far as reviews goes,their are alot of utopia reviews out their on you tube,magazines,and most of them say the same thing about the utopia,basically their fantastic,and you know what my ears tell me the same thing.

Hahaha!

You are now an official reviewer in my book!

 

[LaCuffia]

How long do you think the Utopia would be in production before another version comes out? I would think at least a few more years. From all the reviews out there it seems leaps and bounds ahead of other dynamic headphones that it will take something really special to surpass it. I guess they are safely king of the hill for a while.

For those that have had or tried the HD800S is it true that the Utopia makes it sound veiled in comparison? That would be really amazing.

 

[michkhol]

I do not own LCD-4, so I cannot comment on that. But I own a professional Metric Halo audio interface and using it with the Rupert Neve HP amp and the Focals I do not find them bright at all. They really sound as a reference. However I tried them with the Chord Dave and they were not only bright but unnatural in the highs. So the choice of DAC can sway the impression a lot.

 

[joseph69]

For those that have had or tried the HD800S is it true that the Utopia makes it sound veiled in comparison? That would be really amazing.

No, not to my ears at all.