[up late]

As a fellow professional that literally "uses his ears for a living" I have the utmost respect for Bob Katz and what his done over the years, particularly on the pro forums in terms of spotlighting the loudness wars. 

That said in his review he used a cheap source (HA-2 portable??) and a so-so amp (Audeze Deckard, I also have one) 

From my own experience with the Utopia it doesn't start to really fly unless you put it on high end gear. Once on high end gear it really separates itself from the masses. On a Deckard, it's tough to distinguish between the Elear and Utopia and yes, I've done it. Not impossible, but they are extremely close. Once you put it on a GS-X mk II or Liquid Gold the differences become clear. Use a Yggdrasil instead of an HA-2 and bye bye Elear. Same with a Chord Dave. 

 So in this particular case I feel the Utopia wasn't properly represented, because the LCD-4 (I also have it)  imo is much more capable on lower and mid fi sources than the Utopia. 

ok, but i really don't have a view of bob katz's comparative review beyond being interested in his thoughts on these two cans, which i've also heard but not compared directly

 

[Energy]

@jelt2359 - Utopia to me has similar strengths with the HD800, however bass, upper midrange forwardness, nor sound stage is not one. There's probably a few more minor ones I can list.
 
Nice to see you are one of the rare people who have a DIY T2. I've had the Carbon + 009 for a couple of weeks and it's it's ethereal qualities are something worth noting however the bass shyness kills it for me. I couldn't see myself owning a $5k amplifier that can only be used on just a selected few headphones. That and EDM being a big genre for me, bass is needed in gold.
 
To my ears the Utopia so far is the best jack of all trades. It does however lack in some areas as you have mentioned earlier however with proper EQ in the slightest, it more than makes up for it.

 

[bigfatpaulie]

  @bigfatpaulie - Even with the Utopia in hand you still keep the HD800SD laying around?
 
For me, the Utopia has a similar signature with the HD800/HD800S so it's like an upgraded version so there was no point in me owning both. Unless you keep your Sennheiser around for sound stage or gaming purposes then that makes sense.

 
Yes.  If I was going to move along a headphone the HD800 would not be it.
 

  In short, Bob thinks LCD4 is more accurate from sub-bass to midrange (up to 3kHz) than Utopia. 
as Tyll's frequency response and phase measurements show, it is true.

 
Well, he gives the LCD4 a little more praise than that.  Let's looks that the frequency chart that he made:
 
Accuracy bass- sub 20-40           Equal
Accuracy Mid bass 50-80            LCD4
Accuracy Upper bass 80-110       LCD4
Accuracy Low mids 200-1k         LCD4
Accuracy mids 2k-5k                  Equal
Accuracy Upper mids 5k-8k         LCD4
Accuracy Treble 9k-12k               Utopia
Accuracy Extreme Treble 13k+    Utopia
 
(Basically, which headphone he felt was better in each range)
 
He puts the LCD4 better or, at worst, equal to, the Utopia's up to 8k and even above that the LCD4 is only .5 "subjective points" behind where as the Utopia is sometimes a full 2 "subjective points" behind the LCD4.  
 
As I said, everyone can like what they like, but I have a hard time not feeling that Katz' personal preference shines through on this review - which is just fine.  

 

[Beng Yeow]

Having heard both the LCD-4 and the Utopia on the LAu, I have to say both headphones have their strengths and weaknesses, being someone who is accustomed to the Focal Sound Signature, I preferred the Utopia which is what I end up with, and I have to agree that you have to have the top gears to bring the Utopia up to its potentials having said that the Elear is EXTREME value for money at its price point... 

 

[phaeton70]

 
Accuracy bass- sub 20-40           Equal
Accuracy Mid bass 50-80            LCD4
Accuracy Upper bass 80-110       LCD4
Accuracy Low mids 200-1k         LCD4
Accuracy mids 2k-5k                  Equal
Accuracy Upper mids 5k-8k         LCD4
Accuracy Treble 9k-12k               Utopia
Accuracy Extreme Treble 13k+    Utopia
 

umh, if I'm reading the "Bob Katz Ratings" table correctly, LCD4 is better by a large margin in the 20-40 range.
 
And, when LCD is better, it is quite often by a good margin, while Utopia is only marginally better in few areas (apart from "design and look" that I can care less in an HPs).
 
Reading that table, I would position Utopia as a mid-level cans with some few good aspect, while LCD4 is a very good/excellent all-round performer. There seems to be no contest between the two cans, LCD4 is just in a different league.

 

[Allanmarcus]

 

 
Accuracy bass- sub 20-40           Equal
Accuracy Mid bass 50-80            LCD4
Accuracy Upper bass 80-110       LCD4
Accuracy Low mids 200-1k         LCD4
Accuracy mids 2k-5k                  Equal
Accuracy Upper mids 5k-8k         LCD4
Accuracy Treble 9k-12k               Utopia
Accuracy Extreme Treble 13k+    Utopia
 

umh, if I'm reading the "Bob Katz Ratings" table correctly, LCD4 is better by a large margin in the 20-40 range.
 
And, when LCD is better, it is quite often by a good margin, while Utopia is only marginally better in few areas (apart from "design and look" that I can care less in an HPs).
 
Reading that table, I would position Utopia as a mid-level cans with some few good aspect, while LCD4 is a very good/excellent all-round performer. There seems to be no contest between the two cans, LCD4 is just in a different league.

That's my interpretation of Bob's numbers. 
 
One interesting note at the bottom: "
In my next episode you’ll hear what five expert listeners have to say about these two fine headphones!"
 
I'd also point out there are lots of comments on the Blog post, and Bob is responding to many. Might be better to comment there.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

ignoring the decision to use the Deckard amp, which again was not recommended to pair with the LCD-4 by Audeze themselves.  and the Utopia, despite being "easier to drive" than the LCD-4, blossoms with proper amplification as well.
 
but ignoring that...... okay, use the Deckard.... why not use the Deckard with both headphones?  why use two different amps?  what was the purpose of that?
 
 
it's basic scientific method - if you want to see which seed of grass (dependent variable) grows faster, you hold all independent variables constant.  you put them in the same soil, with the same water, in the same sunlight, in the same location.  you don't put two different seeds of grass in two different soils that you "swear" are similar in nature and then declare one seed to be better.  that is, by definition, and invalid result.  

 

[pofdstudios]

^^^^^^^^^^^ What he said

 

[Imusicman]

As a fellow professional that literally "uses his ears for a living" I have the utmost respect for Bob Katz and what his done over the years, particularly on the pro forums in terms of spotlighting the loudness wars. 

That said in his review he used a cheap source (HA-2 portable??) and a so-so amp (Audeze Deckard, I also have one) 

From my own experience with the Utopia it doesn't start to really fly unless you put it on high end gear. Once on high end gear it really separates itself from the masses. On a Deckard, it's tough to distinguish between the Elear and Utopia and yes, I've done it. Not impossible, but they are extremely close. Once you put it on a GS-X mk II or Liquid Gold the differences become clear. Use a Yggdrasil instead of an HA-2 and bye bye Elear. Same with a Chord Dave. 

 So in this particular case I feel the Utopia wasn't properly represented, because the LCD-4 (I also have it)  imo is much more capable on lower and mid fi sources than the Utopia. 

+1 ( Still feeling the love for the Utopia I see )

 

[Allanmarcus]

  ignoring the decision to use the Deckard amp, which again was not recommended to pair with the LCD-4 by Audeze themselves.  and the Utopia, despite being "easier to drive" than the LCD-4, blossoms with proper amplification as well.
 
but ignoring that...... okay, use the Deckard.... why not use the Deckard with both headphones?  why use two different amps?  what was the purpose of that?
 
 
it's basic scientific method - if you want to see which seed of grass (dependent variable) grows faster, you hold all independent variables constant.  you put them in the same soil, with the same water, in the same sunlight, in the same location.  you don't put two different seeds of grass in two different soils that you "swear" are similar in nature and then declare one seed to be better.  that is, by definition, and invalid result.  

Not defending him, just pointing out what he said regarding your point. BTW, I completely agree with you.
 

In case anyone cries “foul” about my choosing a commercial amplifier to feed one headphone and a custom amp to feed the other, I’ve gone to great lengths and listening tests which demonstrate to everyone’s satisfaction that both amplifiers are sonically equivalent. Sonically neutral in fact as far as my ears tell me. I had brought the custom AMB amp to Tyll’s great headphone and amp shootout in Bozeman, and both Tyll and I agreed that the AMB is not only first rate, but that it killed nearly every commercial amp in terms of transparency, naturalness, accuracy and extension, both low and high end. Perhaps things would be different if the Deckard had been available in Bozeman, because I am equally impressed with its transparency, impact, neutrality, purity of tone, separation and extension. In other words, the Deckard and the AMB are as alike as can be.
Read more at http://www.innerfidelity.com/content/katz%E2%80%99s-corner-episode-13-big-shootout-audeze-lcd-4-vs-focal-utopia#f4xiZ2xOZL50tYmB.99

 

[Energy]

haha Bob Katz has everyone triggered. 

 

[pofdstudios]

Bob Katz doesnt have me triggered in the slightest for one simple fact.  I can really give a hang what someones opinion is on something that is as subjective as
"How it sounds". lol Show me hard graphs from an occiliscope showing a dip here or a spike there and maybe just maybe it might effect my opinion. If im dropping 4000 dollars on a set of cans BELIEVE me the ONLY opinion that is going to matter is going to be MINE. lol

 

[JohnnyCakes]

  I can really give a hang what someones opinion is on something that is as subjective as
"How it sounds". lol 

 
okay, but.... you realize that is what this ENTIRE WEBSITE is about.  arguing each other's subjective opinions.  
 
if we didn't do that, there would be nothing to talk about, and no fun to be had.  

 

[JohnnyCakes]

 
Not defending him, just pointing out what he said regarding your point. BTW, I completely agree with you.
 

thanks for re-posting that.  so basically he did it out of laziness.  
 
 
don't get me wrong, i recognize and appreciate the experience that Bob Katz brings to the table.  which is why it's so frustrating that he conducted such a sloppy test.  
 
honestly, he should have come to my house!  i have the most non-biased set up possible.  both cans, burned-in almost the exact same amount of time (around 200hrs each), both connecting via balanced Black Dragon 4-pin cables, into the same 400-hr burned-in Moon Neo 430HAD (powerful, exceptionally good, and a "non-colored" sound, or as Tyll put it "gets the hell out of the way so i can hear the headphones"), playing Tidal HiFi.  or if he wants to hear Tidal Masters, i can loop in my Meridian Explorer2.  
 
hell, most of us here could offer a similarly objective A/B comparison.  
 
do he and Tyll ever even talk?  i can't imagine Tyll overseeing this and being okay with it.  what is their relationship?  they seem weirdly conjoined on that website but are complete opposites on a lot of stuff...

 

[pofdstudios]

   
okay, but.... you realize that is what this ENTIRE WEBSITE is about.  arguing each other's subjective opinions.
 
if we didn't do that, there would be nothing to talk about, and no fun to be had.  

Oh I get that. But getting ones hackles up over someones "Opinion" to me is pointless. Sure a constructive critique is always appreciated and Id like to know if someones developed problems with the build quality or if there is a buzzing in the left channel and 50 other people have the same issue etc. But the whole " To me between 20-50hz I detected a small sprazzle because the hair on my right ball bristled" is as subjective as hell. Listen I read the review and sure it was as scientific as the gentleman could make it. BUT unless his findings can be measured and shown scientifically then what does it really matter?