[jlbrach]

Probably because for the majority of people, their annual salary raises aren't matching inflation lolol

actually not probably...people are getting murdered by inflation

 

[meomap]

actually not probably...people are getting murdered by inflation

1.5% raise vs 15 to 20% INFLATION..MINIMUM...????

 

[bfreedma]

1.5% raise vs 15 to 20% INFLATION..MINIMUM...????

Not really the right forum for this discussion….

 

[iDesign]

to be honest I see nothing in the description to make me run out and drop 5k...I will listen to opinions and reviews

Agreed. I’d like to see more companies offer upgrade programs for their flagships like Audeze because it’s hard to run out and spend $5,000 on any headphone, and more so, if you already own the Utopia. Upgrade programs might be the best way to maintain customer loyalty and drive flagship product sales in a recession. I can’t imagine many Utopia 2020 owners who paid MSRP buying the latest 2022 offering.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/lcd-5-trade-in-program-expires-nov-15th-2021.960081/

I’m also curious what Focal’s cadence is for new top end products. How many members here will drop $5,000+ every five years just to have the newest? Not many.

 

[vonBaron]

Easy, Utopia OG will be still amazing HP.

 

[561007]

i don't see utopia being classed as "outdated" or anything any time soon, at least for me

 

[Slim1970]

i don't see utopia being classed as "outdated" or anything any time soon, at least for me

Not at all. Based on what I’m reading about the new Utopia’s it sounds more like a tweak than something brand new. People with OG Utopia’s should be okay with this news.

 

[iamoneagain]

I wonder if dealers will offer steep discounts on the OG once the new version is officially announced. Even though we all love our OG, who’s going to want to buy one new when the 2022 version is much more reliable. Wouldn’t be surprised if they get sued for all the driver failures of the OG, since it seems they admit there was an issue. Will new model still have 5 year warranty?

Luckily I bought an open box with full warranty for really good price and have had zero issues. I even tried one of the recommended bass tracks and couldn’t notice any clipping.

I really think this new model is more for people first buying them than replacing the OG we have. But I’m also sure they’ll be plenty of people reporting how much better the new one sounds and bunch of people trading up. But even in the literature they don’t seem to go on and on about big sound change. Maybe that will change when the professional reviews are released.

 

[LuthierJeff]

The voice coil is the bit here:


The redish ring bit above.


... and the copper ring bit above.

My guess is that they've redesigned it so it's better attached rather than with a thin wiring that's prone to snapping:

Pic above from @LuthierJeff's thread with his adventures fixing his Elex - https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fixing-broken-massdrop-x-focal-elex-headphones.963510/

Thanks for the reference! Also, thanks for alerting me to this thread, I didn't realize the Utopias were getting a refresh, it's been interesting to read the last several pages.

 

[LuthierJeff]

That seems odd. Generally the fewer engineering constraints the better the sound. For instance open back headphones remove one big engineering constraint and thus sound improves measurably.

However headphones still have some big constraints. Geometry and driver size. Speakers eliminate these constraints, or at least expand them hugely, so from an engineering perspective you can do a lot more. I'm not doubting your experience, but generally people will prefer the sound from speakers for these reasons, in a well treated room anyway.

Hi there, that was a good post. It's interesting, I've always imagined the engineering constraints largely going in the opposite direction from what you said. I should say I can't make much comparison from experience, as I've never had a nice loudspeaker setup at home, nor am I an engineer, but part of what attracts me to headphones is seemingly fewer obstacles and constraints to overcome. For example, the room/earcup is always controlled and predictable. Also, since the volume of sound is so much more dramatically low than loudspeakers, they can use a single light weight driver to cover the whole frequency range without the need to develop crossovers, deal with multiple driver placement and phase issues, worry about amplifier headroom as much, stuff like that. Of course, what you said makes a lot of sense as well, so I wonder if it's a matter of apple and oranges just having different constraints. I would imagine that a truly top-end speaker setup would totally out-perform a top end headphone setup, but maybe someday I'll get to compare those things.

Another thing I wonder about (and probably there's research out there on this) is how different ears mess with headphone response. Because ears are a huge portion of the space of the "room" in headphones, it seems to make sense that there'd be a dramatic change between the sound that reaches one person's ears vs. another's. I know they'd hear things differently in a loudspeaker setup, too, but maybe not as dramatically? I dunno.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

Any headphone will eventually clip. In 4 years of ownership, I’ve never experienced clipping, even when listening to bass heavy music at high (but not deafness inducing) volume

The fact that people are posting certain examples that need to be played back beyond reasonable listening levels doesn’t indicate (to me) a design flaw

I’m sure that if you play a constant 24hz wave and keep turning up the volume, the new Utopia will eventually clip or bottom out the driver. Since that isn’t part of my evaluation or day to day listening, it doesn’t concer me.

Like I wrote above, Stellia has no problem. So not that all focal behave the same, and I never tried any Utopia from 2021 production (or newer, so can't confirm).

No you don't need 24hz wave to create the rattle, that's why many people reported the problem in various focal threads (not only utopia). Basically need a song with strong sub bass response.

What shouldn't be forgotten with clipping is the effect that DC offset from the amp would have. It would only take a few mV to cut headroom in one excursion direction by tens of decibels. Would dramatically change the volume at which clipping becomes apparent.

The "clip" / rattle sound is really different actually, compared to what amp may cause (when under powered).

 

[Arniesb]

Like I wrote above, Stellia has no problem. So not that all focal behave the same, and I never tried any Utopia from 2021 production (or newer, so can't confirm).

No you don't need 24hz wave to create the rattle, that's why many people reported the problem in various focal threads (not only utopia). Basically need a song with strong sub bass response.


The "clip" / rattle sound is really different actually, compared to what amp may cause (when under powered).

Excatly. Lots of folks listen stuff with no bass whatsoever or never watch a movie. they never gonna notice the problem with jazz or classic.
Fostex all models i tried never rattle, Sennheiser Hd800S never rattle no matter what, T1 nope, hd650 nope. Planars can play very loud whitout a problem too.
Its really the testing problem or lack of since many other flagships dont have this feature.
If what they saying its truth and driver will be able to play louder then im sure there will be plenty of new custumers including me.
Cans who have bass rattle in my testings: Dt990, hd598, utopia.

 

[deafenears]

Like I wrote above, Stellia has no problem. So not that all focal behave the same, and I never tried any Utopia from 2021 production (or newer, so can't confirm).

No you don't need 24hz wave to create the rattle, that's why many people reported the problem in various focal threads (not only utopia). Basically need a song with strong sub bass response.

My understanding is that Focal closed-backs (Stellia, Radiance, Celestee, and Elegia) can take advantage of a bass reflex configuration / system with the little vent/port like with some speakers to reduce driver excursion. With that, they also use a shorter voice-coil so less likely to run into the clipping issues as seen with Focal's open-backs like the Utopia.

 

[Beefy]

The "clip" / rattle sound is really different actually, compared to what amp may cause (when under powered).

Not what I'm talking about. Offset is different from power.

Any voltage across the voice coil moves it away from centre. Ideally, when no music is playing, there is absolutely no voltage, the driver sits dead centre, and you have just the alternating/swinging voltage component that comprises the music moving the driver.

But if there is a DC offset, the driver starts off-centre, closer or further from your ear. From this off-centre position, it might be closer to clipping when the music layers over the top. In most cases, a little DC offset is not an issue... but I bet it's an X-factor that can help explain why some people experience clipping so much more readily than others.

 

[DJW50]

Speaking as someone who bought a brand new pair of Utopia's this March at full retail price I'm so pleased with them plus the Moon Audio cables I won't be needing to change them for the new model.
There are other items in my headphone chain that require upgrading like trying DAVE in my system etc so maybe in five years time if rave reviews say the new model blows the old one out the water I may be tempted, until then I'll just enjoy what I have.