[GiullianSN]

Spec Sheet says it weighs 22.05 lbs. That's a deal breaker for me.

A Neck breaker as well.

 

[Guidostrunk]

Spec Sheet says it weighs 22.05 lbs. That's a deal breaker for me.

 

[Davesrose]

I'm not disputing (nor was it even my intention to comment) on any of that.

Merely that it is highly unlikely that Focal designed the Radiance as a co-branded product from the ground up and intends to sell it as such in perpetuity.

Focal's product line structure is pretty well-documented... With the discontinuation of the Elegia, a lower-tier closed-back can has been an inevitability. So which scenario is more likely? That Focal intends to occupy that product spot with a co-branded special edition headphone? For the foreseeable future? Even though none of the other headphones in their lineup are collaborations? Or that this co-branded special edition is simply a way of introducing a new model?

I'd bet a thousand dollars that the "Focal for Bentley Radiance Headphone" is a limited edition run of what will come to be known as the "Focal Radiance Headphone"... Or in the very least, the Bentley co-branded run will be limited, and an identical headphone with a different name (but again, most likely in a different color scheme) will emerge as a regular product.

I think your perspective is that it's Focal that has sole ownership for this headphone line: that they designed for Bentley and has the right to end the contract when they chose? If you look at the wording, it does seem to be the other way around. Even the spec sheet for the Radiance says Focal for Bentley (IE it's Bentley that had say in the design and will have say for the lifespan of this product). Many headphones that are not deemed "limited edition" still aren't in production for very long. Who knows how long the lifespan of this product will be: but I'm pretty sure that Bentley will be the one saying. I really doubt Focal would want to spend extra money to get out of the deal, especially that there are people who will spend more on a headphone for "bling". Focal has maintained a similar relationship for MassDrop Elex vs Focal Elear.

 

[Earbones]

I think your perspective is that it's Focal that has sole ownership for this headphone line: that they designed for Bentley and has the right to end the contract when they chose? If you look at the wording, it does seem to be the other way around. Even the spec sheet for the Radiance says Focal for Bentley (IE it's Bentley that had say in the design and will have say for the lifespan of this product). Many headphones that are not deemed "limited edition" still aren't in production for very long. Who knows how long the lifespan of this product will be: but I'm pretty sure that Bentley will be the one saying. I really doubt Focal would want to spend extra money to get out of the deal, especially that there are people who will spend more on a headphone for "bling". Focal has maintained a similar relationship for MassDrop Elex vs Focal Elear.

From a legal standpoint, there are no implications to be drawn from the wording of "Focal for Bentley".

I'd imagine it's a similar situation to the relationship Bentley has with Breitling. But unlike luxury watches (which definitely swim in the same pool as luxury automobiles), I doubt Bentley has any long-term plans to enter the headphone game.

Occam's Razor answer? This is Focal's new closed-back to replace the Elegia, in a limited edition color scheme and co-branding.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Davesrose]

From a legal standpoint, there are no implications to be drawn from the wording of "Focal for Bentley".

I'd imagine it's a similar situation to the relationship Bentley has with Breitling. But unlike luxury watches (which definitely swim in the same pool as luxury automobiles), I doubt Bentley has any long-term plans to enter the headphone game.

Occam's Razor answer? This is Focal's new closed-back to replace the Elegia, in a limited edition color scheme and co-branding.

I guess we'll just have to wait and see.

I read "Focal for Bentley" being that Bentley is "client" who has say about design: more so that they are the ones actually marketing the product (and taking pre-orders now).

Occam's Razor in my perspective is that Focal gets to take one of their current lines, get to add some bling and retune, and get more profit margins from Bentley. I really do see them as welcoming this as it doesn't cost them money, they get more prestige as being the audio drivers for Bentley, and I can see many folks being impressed by the looks that also influences bias about audio being good (but I'm sure audio will also be good, as Focal is good for AQ). With COVID, I don't have to try to collect more closed backs....but if I was, I might try to take you up on your bid about 1,000 for this just being a Focal limited edition. It really seems that Bentley is the one that would pull strings: really doubt the deal would allow Focal to bow out and produce the same headphone without Bentley logo.

 

[Earbones]

I read "Focal for Bentley" being that Bentley is "client" who has say about design: more so that they are the ones actually marketing the product (and taking pre-orders now).

Occam's Razor in my perspective is that Focal gets to take one of their current lines, get to add some bling and retune, and get more profit margins from Bentley. I really do see them as welcoming this as it doesn't cost them money, they get more prestige as being the audio drivers for Bentley, and I can see many folks being impressed by the looks that also influences bias about audio being good (but I'm sure audio will also be good, as Focal is good for AQ). With COVID, I don't have to try to collect more closed backs....but if I was, I might try to take you up on your bid about 1,000 for this just being a Focal limited edition. It really seems that Bentley is the one that would pull strings: really doubt the deal would allow Focal to bow out and produce the same headphone without Bentley logo.

I know the wordage sounds that way, but from a legal standpoint it is noncommittal... It doesn't allude to anything.

The bigger thing to consider is why would Bentley take the time to design a headphone? It doesn't make sense for them. As someone else pointed out, it's priced as it is because even Bentley owners think north of $1k is pricy for a headphone. Do you know what Bentley designs that costs $1k? Nothing. Floor mats, maybe? A single wheel runs north of $5k, and people **** up and replace wheels all the time. Why would Bentley go full-bore into headphones a fraction of their customers will buy, that earns them around 1/6 of something they sell all the time?

Focal is benefitting from Bentley's prestige here. And Bentley is happy to let them, as it costs them nothing, and the headphones are a nice widget to sell in their dealership gift shops (or perhaps even offer free to VIP buyers)... But I don't think they could be bothered to design the thing. Or do anything other than sign a release and take delivery of a limited run of headphones, probably for pennies on the dollar. Moreover, the design aesthetic is dripping with Focal DNA... this an in-house design if ever I saw one.

If Bentley is selling it before Focal, that's probably due to the deal they worked out. Don't want those Bentley buyers thinking the exclusive headphone they bought for their kid to watch Frozen II in the backseat is anything other than exclusive... Wouldn't do for Focal to offer the exact same headphone in different colors for $300-$500 less on their site. Well, at least not yet.

 

[gordec]

Headfiers usually don't care about gears with special branding or limited edition that don't add any sonic value to the normal version.

 

[Davesrose]

I know the wordage sounds that way, but from a legal standpoint it is noncommittal... It doesn't allude to anything.

The bigger thing to consider is why would Bentley take the time to design a headphone? It doesn't make sense for them. As someone else pointed out, it's priced as it is because even Bentley owners think north of $1k is pricy for a headphone. Do you know what Bentley designs that costs $1k? Nothing. Floor mats, maybe? A single wheel runs north of $5k, and people **** up and replace wheels all the time. Why would Bentley go full-bore into headphones a fraction of their customers will buy, that earns them around 1/6 of something they sell all the time?

Focal is benefitting from Bentley's prestige here. And Bentley is happy to let them, as it costs them nothing, and the headphones are a nice widget to sell in their dealership gift shops (or perhaps even offer free to VIP buyers)... But I don't think they could be bothered to design the thing. Or do anything other than sign a release and take delivery of a limited run of headphones, probably for pennies on the dollar. Moreover, the design aesthetic is dripping with Focal DNA... this an in-house design if ever I saw one.

If Bentley is selling it before Focal, that's probably due to the deal they worked out. Don't want those Bentley buyers thinking the exclusive headphone they bought for their kid to watch Frozen II in the backseat is anything other than exclusive... Wouldn't do for Focal to offer the exact same headphone in different colors for $300-$500 less on their site. Well, at least not yet.

Your post doesn't really seem to acknowledge how branding works. Bentley didn't design this headphone independently from Focal: they interacted with them to produce a new model. Don't know how much experience you have with product development, but it is done by committees. I have been involved with design: if you're the one producing for client, you provide tons of options. They then come back and say: yes, love this...let's role with this. Pretty sure this is how it went down...Focal presented, Bentley approved a design, and the contract was set with this headphone. I'm very certain that Focal can't back out or sell the same headphone without Bentley logo.

I could say when you go into the Bentley car pricing: again, that's the same with Porsche....and they have a solid history of a name with cutlery at regular gourmet pricing. My opinion is that perhaps this particular headphone was set as a higher end Elegia is that original AQ was good and you add extra styling. The equation is still better than Bose and Beats (which has earned a fortune for bling). So please, as long as this is marketed enough, this will sell very well enough.

 

[Earbones]

Headfiers usually don't care about gears with special branding or limited edition that don't add any sonic value to the normal version.

Agreed. The headphone may be from Focal audiophile line, but this whole deal is all about positioning their Listen Wireless and other lower end consumer headphones as luxury lifestyle products... It's a page out of the Beats handbook.

 

[Earbones]

Your post doesn't really seem to acknowledge how branding works. Bentley didn't design this headphone independently from Focal: they interacted with them to produce a new model. Don't know how much experience you have with product development, but it is done by committees. I have been involved with design: if you're the one producing for client, you provide tons of options. They then come back and say: yes, love this...let's role with this. Pretty sure this is how it went down...Focal presented, Bentley approved a design, and the contract was set with this headphone. I'm very certain that Focal can't back out or sell the same headphone without Bentley logo.

I could say when you go into the Bentley car pricing: again, that's the same with Porsche....and they have a solid history of a name with cutlery at regular gourmet pricing. My opinion is that perhaps this particular headphone was set as a higher end Elegia is that original AQ was good and you add extra styling. The equation is still better than Bose and Beats (which has earned a fortune for bling). So please, as long as this is marketed enough, this will sell very well enough.

Translation: Focal designed it, Bentley approved. Focal manufactured it. All Bentley did was lend their brand. What makes you think Bentley then controls the property? A deal was struck. Just as it makes no sense for Bentley to design a headphone, it makes no sense for Focal to design a headphone from the ground up, exclusively for Bentley.

You keep stating that this is just an Elegia with different tuning, implying it cost very little for Focal to produce it. But if it doesn't look like an Elegia, and it doesn't sound like an Elegia... Where does Elegia come into the picture? This is most likely a new product, and seeing as how Focal is currently without a mid-tier closed-back headphone, why would they leave that slot empty only to design one to be sold exclusively by Bentley?

Again, the simplest explanation is that the we will eventually see that there is the production Focal Radiance, and the Limited Edition "Focal for Bentley" Radiance. Look at the Clear Pro. It's not a collaboration, but it shows that Focal is well-versed in selling the exact same product in different guises.

 

[noplsestar]

I‘d say: Listen to them, if you like them, buy them AND COVER THE BENTLEY LOGO WITH A BLACK TAPE

With that being said, also Bowers & Wilkins has collaborations with a car manufacturer for loudspeakers in their car, and I think that this kind of collabo makes totally sense. I don’t get how the focal Bentley thing is supposed to be „cool“ for us. It’s all about money. That’s something I detest. Maybe Bentley buys 1000 headphones right off the bat so that they can give them as a bonus to Bentley buyers. Or something else. All I can say: I don’t like that. I am a fan of the Stellia and since those new phones won’t be in the same league (except in the weight category hahahaha) I don’t care listening to them BUT as said above, you could always scrape off the logo and have fun listening to them - if you happen to like a phone that is even warmer/rolled off than the Elegia - (I suppose Bentley owners only want to hear bass, a bit of mids and nothing up top, so that they are not disturbed when making management calls. I know, this is snippy. Sorry ahahaha.

 

[Davesrose]

Translation: Focal designed it, Bentley approved. Focal manufactured it. All Bentley did was lend their brand. What makes you think Bentley then controls the property? A deal was struck. Just as it makes no sense for Bentley to design a headphone, it makes no sense for Focal to design a headphone from the ground up, exclusively for Bentley.

You keep stating that this is just an Elegia with different tuning, implying it cost very little for Focal to produce it. But if it doesn't look like an Elegia, and it doesn't sound like an Elegia... Where does Elegia come into the picture? This is most likely a new product, and seeing as how Focal is currently without a mid-tier closed-back headphone, why would they leave that slot empty only to design one to be sold exclusively by Bentley?

Again, the simplest explanation is that the we will eventually see that there is the production Focal Radiance, and the Limited Edition "Focal for Bentley" Radiance.

I think they control property because they are the client. Same as MassDrop with Elex. Did I ever say a design firm has to design a product from the ground up? No, they have their current production line. Bentley came and said: hey, we'd love to hire you for a headphone line that has some prestige. The back and forth was then price....which given that many folks equate best headphones being Apple Airpods and Beats audio...I don't think it's a large leap that this headphone is priced because of that (because most folks think that over $300 is luxury for headphones...that this one is a good brand like Focal should be good).

I say this is a tuning from Elegia due to this thread: that it's same driver and now different tuning due to different pads and different back.

 

[Earbones]

I think they control property because they are the client. Same as MassDrop with Elex. Did I ever say a design firm has to design a product from the ground up? No, they have their current production line. Bentley came and said: hey, we'd love to hire you for a headphone line that has some prestige. The back and forth was then price....which given that many folks equate best headphones being Apple Airpods and Beats audio...I don't think it's a large leap that this headphone is priced because of that (because most folks think that over $300 is luxury for headphones...that this one is a good brand like Focal should be good).

I say this is a tuning from Elegia due to this thread: that it's same driver and now different tuning due to different pads and different back.

Beyond the voice coils, the drivers used in the Elear and Clear are largely the same. Similar bones does not a rehashed clone make. There's enough going on here with different sound and different design to call this a whole new headphone.

The crux of our argument seems to be that you believe someone at Bentley woke up one day and said, "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we had a $1300 headphone to sell in our gift shop?" and then went looking for a vendor.

And I believe that while Focal is doing well enough with their audiophile headphones, they could stand to sell more bread-and-butter low-fi consumer cans, so they approached Bentley for a collab, hoping to have some of that lux bling rub off on their brand... In other words, a move straight out of the Beats playbook. Meanwhile, they probably already had the Elegia replacement locked and loaded, so why not debut it as an LE collab? But I don't think it will stay that way.

In any event...

...Agree to disagree

 

[Davesrose]

Beyond the voice coils, the drivers used in the Elear and Clear are largely the same. Similar bones does not a rehashed clone make. There's enough going on here with different sound and different design to call this a whole new headphone.

The crux of our argument seems to be that you believe that someone at Bentley woke up one day and said, "Hey, wouldn't it be great if we had a $1300 headphone to sell in our gift shop?" and then went looking for a vendor. And I believe that while Focal is doing well enough with their audiophile headphones, they could stand to sell more bread-and-butter low-fi consumer cans, so they approached Bentley for a colab, hoping to have some of that lux bling rub off on their brand... In other words, a move straight out of the Beats playbook.

In any event...

...Agree to disagree

It's telling you want to draw differences between the Elear and Clear and not Elear and MassDrop Elex. I previously have mentioned about how MassDrop has been a continuing partnership with Focal for having a different headphone line that offers some different tuning (at least with pads, and also appearance with all black finish). I'm not really sure how much more time I'm going to spend with you if you do really think anyone implies one person at Bentley "woke up one day and said 'Hey, Wouldn't it be great if we had a $1300 headphone to sell in our gift shop?'" It's clear there was a back and forth about design. Ignoring also the fact that there's years familiarity of Focal being the speaker driver for Bentley. The way you keep going on, the more I wonder how much you understand about brands or headphone production. You do understand that many headphones advertised as new are actually improvements in design (such as Sennheiser HD600 vs HD650)?

 

[jirams]

Let them eat cake!