[boerps]

Ok, thanks for all the responses.
 
So how about the dac/amps with the elear and the HD650?
 
I currently have the Steinberg UR22: Is that ok for both or only for the Elear?
 
I'm just trying to figure out what additional costs in amp/dac there would be for both of these headphones.
 
Edit:
Ideally ofc I would like to keep my UR22 and not buy anything else but from what I've read at least the HD650 should be paired with good dac/amp?
 
Then again, I don't even know how good the Steinberg UR22 actually is since it is an aduio-interface primarily for recording and I don't really have anything to compare it with.

 

[Kalavere]

   It's the one I reach for the most frequently, more than my HE560. 

 
You prefer the HD 650 to the HE-560? I have both and I can't imagine that.

 

[Kalavere]

 
So how about the dac/amps with the elear and the HD650?

 
They are both fairly easy to drive, the Elear more so, it's very easy. I can drive my HD 650 to a decent level using only my phone, but, it scales very well with better sources and amping. 

 

[JLoud]

Hi,

so I'm looking for a headphone that allow me to fatigue-free listening for different genres of music. Basically everything, I guess with a preference for rap, rock and pop.

Currently I own the X2 but the treble just annoys me too much.

Now I'm wondering wether or not the Elear might be worth the investment for me.

The thing is, I basically found two completely different judgements in reviews about the Focal Elear:

"9-10kHz is my weakness. Peaks here tend to fatigue me more quickly than most others. Most headphones emphasize this area, but when the lower treble is dipped but mid treble suddenly spikes, I start having problems. The Hifiman HE500 has this problem, along with the Philips Fidelio X2 and a few others. But for whatever reason, the first time I used the Elear, I got a headache by the end of the first song. It wasn’t even an excessively bright song;"

--> So this would obviously mean that the Elear are nothing for me at all. Ironically there even is a comparison with the X2.


But then there is this:

"[COLOR=444444]I spent a lot of time testing different tracks listening to how the treble tuning affected the presentation.  In many cases, it toned back harshness in a range that people can find unappealing.  For instance certain cymbal splashes can be harsh on brighter headphones, but never on the Elear.  In some cases, the hi-hat cymbal would fall in the laid-back range and push it way back in the mix, while the other cymbals were unaffected, being higher in the frequency range.  As a drummer, I found that distracting, but it only happened on a minority of songs.  More often than not, I’d just hear a nice reduction in sibilance and other fatiguing sounds.  On those tracks, the treble offers an appealing balance of smoothness and extension."[/COLOR]


[COLOR=444444]So, I don't know what to do with this.[/COLOR]
[COLOR=444444]Are the Focal Elear a good headphone if you are sensible to harsh treble and sibilants or not?[/COLOR]

I have the Elear and am also sensitive to treble. I have no issues with the Elear even at high volume. A cheaper alternative would be the Fostex th-x00. Massdrop edition. Great for EDM and rap. Bass hits incredibly hard and deep. But the Elear is a much better all around headphone. Also have the HD650 and it is a nice headphone but very relaxed and not really suited for aggressive mus, the like rap and EDM.

 

[CanadianMaestro]

  Ok, thanks for all the responses.
 
So how about the dac/amps with the elear and the HD650?
 
I currently have the Steinberg UR22: Is that ok for both or only for the Elear?
 
I'm just trying to figure out what additional costs in amp/dac there would be for both of these headphones.
 
Edit:
Ideally ofc I would like to keep my UR22 and not buy anything else but from what I've read at least the HD650 should be paired with good dac/amp?
 
Then again, I don't even know how good the Steinberg UR22 actually is since it is an aduio-interface primarily for recording and I don't really have anything to compare it with.

Why do you think your UR22 is not good?
 

   
You prefer the HD 650 to the HE-560? I have both and I can't imagine that.

It's a much more relaxed HP that doesn't make me wonder if there's anything "better" for relaxed listening late nights. For the price I paid, the 650 is unmatched. Put it this way: Elear costs $1500 CAD. I can get 650 + HE560 for the cost of one Elear. Or 5 x HD650s for one Elear. Is Elear 5 times better than 650? I doubt it.
 
560 is a great HP, that's why I keep it. 650/560 are drastically different, better to have both to cover a wider range of music and moods.
 
Why would anyone spend money on two HPs that sounded alike??

 

[doctorjazz]

I have the HE-560, had the 650, have a review set of Elears.
When I had both the 560 and 650, used the 560 MUCH more (that's why I sold the 650, though I've been sorry I did since). The 560 IS NOT for those sensitive to treble, though, but I found good amps (I used the RSA HR-2 and the MicroZOTL2) made this less of an issue and I found them enjoyable.
The 650 can be driven without an amp, but has that "veil" people complain about, which is improved with better amplification (as the ones I mentioned above, or the more recent amp to the collection, the Liquid Carbon). It's not about getting volume; the tonality, bass and other characteristics change with better amping (I know there are those out there who will strongly disagree).
The Elear is a fine all rounder; find it to be almost the ANTI-HE-560. They do all the things inversely-with Elear having a smoother, bass emphasized presentation, no soundstage, great pace, great image solidity, rolled off highs (to my ears). The 560 more detail, more treble (maybe too much), more soundstage and space between instruments.
They complement well (if you can have 2)
My $0.02

 

[Kalavere]

 
Put it this way: Elear costs $1500 CAD. I can get 650 + HE560 for the cost of one Elear. Or 5 x HD650s for one Elear. Is Elear 5 times better than 650? I doubt it.

 
Well to quote yourself.
 
 Quote:
 

  Price and "new-ness" are not reliable gauges of musicality.

 
But yes, I get where you're going with it. I wasn't overly 'blown away' with the 650, I think there's much better to be had, but not at that price bracket. 

 

[Kalavere]

I have the HE-560, had the 650, have a review set of Elears.
When I had both the 560 and 650, used the 560 MUCH more (that's why I sold the 650, though I've been sorry I did since). The 560 IS NOT for those sensitive to treble, though, but I found good amps (I used the RSA HR-2 and the MicroZOTL2) made this less of an issue and I found them enjoyable.
The 650 can be driven without an amp, but has that "veil" people complain about, which is improved with better amplification (as the ones I mentioned above, or the more recent amp to the collection, the Liquid Carbon). It's not about getting volume; the tonality, bass and other characteristics change with better amping (I know there are those out there who will strongly disagree).
The Elear is a fine all rounder; find it to be almost the ANTI-HE-560. They do all the things inversely-with Elear having a smoother, bass emphasized presentation, no soundstage, great pace, great image solidity, rolled off highs (to my ears). The 560 more detail, more treble (maybe too much), more soundstage and space between instruments.
They complement well (if you can have 2)
My $0.02

 
How are you faring with your Liquid Carbon, DoctorJazz? I have mine paired with my HE-1000, balanced, and I'm thinking of jacking in the Lyr 2, it's very, very nice.

 

[doctorjazz]

@Kalavere,
Honestly, the LC is basically a back up for me, I use the MicroZOTL2 almost all the time when it is available. The LC is easy to throw in a bag and take on trips, and sounds really good, but the ZOTL is better to my ears (costs about twice as much, so, while that is no guarantee of better sound, it often correlates). Having said that, I just had one channel go out on my ZOTL and sent it to Ben at Mojo Audio, who repairs and upgrades them (getting it upgraded while he has it). So, I've been using the LC for the past few days instead, and I'm not suffering in the least, very nice little amp indeed.

 

[Kalavere]

@Kalavere,
Honestly, the LC is basically a back up for me, I use the MicroZOTL2 almost all the time when it is available. The LC is easy to throw in a bag and take on trips, and sounds really good, but the ZOTL is better to my ears (costs about twice as much, so, while that is no guarantee of better sound, it often correlates). Having said that, I just had one channel go out on my ZOTL and sent it to Ben at Mojo Audio, who repairs and upgrades them (getting it upgraded while he has it). So, I've been using the LC for the past few days instead, and I'm not suffering in the least, very nice little amp indeed.

 
I've been Googling that amp myself quite a bit lately. It might actually be your doing, I'm sure I've looked at your profile more than a couple of times and noticed it. It is a beast of a thing.

I've had my eye on the Trilogy Audio 931 for a while, I tried it when I bought my Elears, it's very nice indeed, I think that might be a future upgrade for me.

 

[doctorjazz]

The mods added that to my posts, I must have been spouting off on the ZOTL a bit much at first...
It's a great little amp, curious what will come back when Ben upgrades the wiring, volume pot, and other components on it.
Haven't heard the Trilogy Audio 931, can't comment. (did hear the Cavalli Liquid Gold in a system at CanJam, with Mojo Audio's Mystique DAC and Mr Speakers headphones, man, was that a nice sounding system. (no longer available, though).

 

[boerps]

Thanks for all the information.
 
Also, since I currently try out the Audioquest Nighthawk:
How do the HD 650 and the Elear compare to the Nighthawks?

 

[dannybgoode]

I've been Googling that amp myself quite a bit lately. It might actually be your doing, I'm sure I've looked at your profile more than a couple of times and noticed it. It is a beast of a thing.


I've had my eye on the Trilogy Audio 931 for a while, I tried it when I bought my Elears, it's very nice indeed, I think that might be a future upgrade for me.

I did an extensive audition (albeit primarily on the Utopia but I did briefly listen to the Elear also) on the Trilogy 931 & 933, a Bryston BHA1 and a Questyle CMA600i and put the order in for the 931.

Hugely capable amp and 9/10's of the 933 (plus I didn't like the remote only operation of the 933). Would drive a pair of bricks never mind the Elear. Very very detailed with great imaging and spacing. Bright but not brittle or fatiguing. Beautifully built also.

Suits both Focal headphones very well and I'm surprised its not more popular among Head Fi-ers.

Will he interesting to see if Nic designs an external power supply for the 931 as an upgrade.

The Bryston too was exceptionally nice but warmer so a better choice for someone who feels the Utopia needs taming a bit rather than an ideal partner for the Elear.

 

[TheMiddleSky]

  Well, it isn't really the majority, just a relevant part of it. That's why I said I'm looking for a headphone which is basically a good allrounder while having a smooth treble.
So, my question still stands wether or not the Focal Elear fits these criteria?

I would say it match your need very much. Other very good option would be LCD-X or LCD-3F whch is simply significantly above Elear in term of price and of course more weight on your head too.
 
p.s: I awlays assume that I am a person who cannot stand sibilance or aggresive high frequency (some of my past headphone are HD650 (twice), LCD-X, and Oppo PM-1)

 

[Kalavere]

I did an extensive audition (albeit primarily on the Utopia but I did briefly listen to the Elear also) on the Trilogy 931 & 933, a Bryston BHA1 and a Questyle CMA600i and put the order in for the 931.

Hugely capable amp and 9/10's of the 933 (plus I didn't like the remote only operation of the 933). Would drive a pair of bricks never mind the Elear. Very very detailed with great imaging and spacing. Bright but not brittle or fatiguing. Beautifully built also.

Suits both Focal headphones very well and I'm surprised its not more popular among Head Fi-ers.

Will he interesting to see if Nic designs an external power supply for the 931 as an upgrade.

The Bryston too was exceptionally nice but warmer so a better choice for someone who feels the Utopia needs taming a bit rather than an ideal partner for the Elear.

 
Ah yes, I tried the CMA600i when I was auditioning the Elear, nice but didn't quite have the omphh that the 931 had. I've heard Trilogy have some interesting things on the way, I was talking to my dealer today about it. 

I think I'm going to get shot of my Lyr 2 move over to the Cavalli Liquid Carbon for a bit then upgrade to the 931, seems like a good path to me.