[Barnstormer13]

The website referenced in the post below and subsequent discussion on this thread. I don't know the exact rules of Head fi, but I do know the mods aren't super fond of referencing certain websites

Ok, I know which website you’re referring to. I wouldn’t put a ton of confidence in their measurements. Their testing methodology is suspect as well as their understanding of the results.

 

[roskodan]

Yeah, I had similar feelings about his approach. I get it that it's useful to have a target curve and EQ might yield some pleasant results. He also praised the Clear out of box response vs his target curve. But then the clipping issue showed up (under undisclosed settings) and the Clear got completely discarded. Which is fine by me, I would have probably done the same, except for the not acknowledging it was likely an exception, a sub standard sample (but we don't know that because no details about the conditions under which the clipping was produced were given).

Definitely not convinced by his black and white approach. It's like a headphone can't be enjoyable unless it's EQ-ed to meet the fatidic curve. While, sincerely, for me it's quite the opposite. Most TOTL headphones are tuned to prioritize some other qualities other than strictly follow a standard target curve. Actually, can't say I ever came across one for which I can confidently say EQ-ing was 100% improvement in overall performance / sound enjoyment. I'm more of an amp matching fan. Which reminds me of that Jan Meier's article that came out on good ol' InnerFidelity. Musings on Headphone Amplifier Output Impedance (pdf attached).

 

[Barnstormer13]

Yeah, I had similar feelings about his approach. I get it that it's useful to have a target curve and EQ might yield some pleasant results. He also praised the Clear out of box response vs his target curve. But then the clipping issue showed up (under undisclosed settings) and the Clear got completely discarded. Which is fine by me, I would have probably done the same, except for the not acknowledging it was likely an exception, a sub standard sample (but we don't know that because no details about the conditions under which the clipping was produced were given).

Definitely not convinced by his black and white approach. It's like a headphone can't be enjoyable unless it's EQ-ed to meet the fatidic curve. While, sincerely, for me it's quite the opposite. Most TOTL headphones are tuned to prioritize some other qualities other than strictly follow a standard target curve. Actually, can't say I ever came across one for which I can confidently say EQ-ing was 100% improvement in overall performance / sound enjoyment. I'm more of an amp matching fan. Which reminds me of that Jan Meier's article that came out on good ol' InnerFidelity. Musings on Headphone Amplifier Output Impedance (pdf attached).

Great article!

 

[ozz]

IMO if you throw enough volume at any headphone with a demanding passage be it movie or music it will clip but for your hearing safety I would refrain.

 

[HTSkywalker]

My Mcintosch Amp have a clipping protection coupled with alert lights to protect both cans and speakers but i prefer to use the Violectric.

 

[HTSkywalker]

Quoted from Mcintosch website: “ utilizes Power Guard to prevent clipping and keep your speakers safe from damage.”

 

[DivineCurrent]

Here's my take on the clipping issue. Most music has very little information at or below 25 hz, which is most likely what is causing it. The Clear is not meant to produce those super low frequencies reliably honestly (it's an open back dynamic driver). It seems people are cherry picking tracks like Blade Runner 2049, which boost that 25-20hz area to an absurd level only meant for subwoofers. I did try playing this track on my Clear, using a 2 dB EQ boost in the bass as well, but I didn't hear any clipping. Maybe I'm not listening loud enough. But you should probably use a planar magnetic if you want to reliably hear frequencies that low without mechanical clipping.

Anyway, I have been trying other headphones and have not used the Clear very often until this week. The Clear can do things that the HE-500 cannot, which is getting that physical dynamism and almost holographic imaging. You can just feel the impact of everything, it gives a sense of the instruments actually being right there in front of you. It is very unique, probably because of Focal's driver design. They did something right for sure!

Speaking of EQ, I personally think the right EQ settings transform this headphone from excellent to truly incredible. I have always been a fan of the Sennheiser HD600 series headphones, the 58X is my favorite of the bunch currently. It sounds very natural, and does not have any peaks that the Clear sometimes has. So, I tried some EQ and after a bunch of testing with sine sweeps and music, I have made my Clear sound as close as it gets to the Sennheisers in terms of frequency response. This gives me pretty much what I've always wanted in a high end headphone; something that has the midrange and treble naturalness of the Sennheisers, but with much greater dynamic capability and detail.

Preamp: -3 dB
Filter: ON LSC Fc 70 Hz Gain 2 dB Q 0.8
Filter: ON PK Fc 1300 Hz Gain -2.5 dB Q 1.5
Filter: ON PK Fc 3600 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 5100 Hz Gain -1.5 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 5500 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 5700 Hz Gain -5 dB Q 6
Filter: ON PK Fc 6500 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 5
Filter: ON PK Fc 7000 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 8000 Hz Gain -2 dB Q 4
Filter: ON PK Fc 10200 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 10
Filter: ON PK Fc 10400 Hz Gain -3.5 dB Q 8
Filter: ON PK Fc 11500 Hz Gain -1 dB Q 3

 

[Barnstormer13]

Quoted from Mcintosch website: “ utilizes Power Guard to prevent clipping and keep your speakers safe from damage.”

This is separate from the Focal “clipping” issue. When an amplifier is asked to supply more current than it can deliver, the amp starts clipping off the top of the wave forms, essentially creating a lot of high frequency distortion which can burn out your speakers. McIntosh has a circuit that filters out that high frequency distortion to protect the speakers.

The Focal clear issue is essentially the driver running into the stops at the end of its travel. The amp doesn’t have to be in clipping for that to happen

 

[HTSkywalker]

With the exact same setup the Elear clips way before the Ananda which in fact does not clip at all or even distort all the way to the maximum volume. Just my observation .

 

[tdcp]

https://www.facebook.com/manop.kosavanitsakit/videos/3698449393532140

I think he listens too loud.

 

[Forsaked]

https://www.facebook.com/manop.kosavanitsakit/videos/3698449393532140

I think he listens too loud.

Hell, those are Headphones and not Loudspeakers...

 

[roskodan]

LOL, WTH, next thing will be people plugging them straight into wall sockets. It CLIPS!!!

 

[tdcp]

He has made a claim with a dealer in Thailand

 

[roskodan]

Btw, tried their (asr) suggested EQ settings (Equalizer APO), for both Clear and HD650, the difference is subtle, especially on the Clear. HD650 felt like profiting more from EQ, mostly for it's more lackluster bass extension with no EQ applied. With the Clear what felt improved was maybe the sub bass presence, a little, but with a pretty obvious loss in punch tightness (at least when A/B-ing). Some attenuation of mic "lipness" in vocals too, but I didn't find it necessary, actually dulled vocals for me. Interesting how the change in sound from switching between Hugo as amp to Hugo plus Mjolnir as amp is much more profound. Like technicalities across the spectrum changed in a very complex manner. Like a very complex EQ treatment? And yet both amps when measured yield flat response curves. Go figure.

Conclusion, EQ is great, especially when you have feedback from folks willing to measure what should work best. But amp matching for me is still a thing even between amps that measure virtually the same. If one finds the Clear "metallic", EQ is definitely worth messing around. Or if one wants overwhelming sub bass. Bassheads!

EDIT:
For the Clear, increasing to 6 and 3 dB, for f1 and f2 respectively, gets 'em pumping some sweet bass, starting to like this schiit:

Filter 1 f1: ON LS Fc 40 Hz Gain 3.0 6dB Q 1.0
Filter 2 f2: ON LS Fc 75 Hz Gain 2.0 4dB Q 1.0

That brings the bass boost region up to +10dB, which is perceived (i.e. gives the feeling) as a doubling in loudness.

 

[Ifalna]

I'm not arguing with your conclusions about the headphones, but I am questioning your methods. How do you know it was over 80 dB? You didn't measure it, so you're estimating. Have you ever had an opportunity to guess at the SPL of various sounds to see how accurate you are? Most charts estimate 80 dB as the sound level of city noise on a busy city street, while 70 dB is around the SPL of normal conversation.

This is not personal. I am suggesting, as I have in other posts, that listeners' opinions of how loudly their Clears were playing when they heard clipping are likely inaccurate. I would guess the level at which they heard clipping was actually A LOT higher than they have estimated.

If you want a few measurements, I measured mine with a M.A.L.P. on a stick™.

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/...ar-review-headphone.18585/page-28#post-626435
I do not have cool measurement gear but the UMIK I used is calibrated, so the results should be okay +-3dB.

My measurements confirm my gut feeling (or rather: ringing ears) that MY Clear hits Xmax at volumes I should definitely avoid, if I want to be able to enjoy detailed audio 40 years from now.
So for me, with my Clear and my use case, this is basically a non-issue, even though I did run into it during movies.
I'm not mad at the can though, because I take it as a hint that I am damaging my ears and turn the volume down.... by 2dB.

As for the mods not being fan of referencing websites: this is scientific data. It doesn't care about your feels. You may disagree with the measurement protocols or conclusions drawn and all kinds of interesting discussions might ensue. Case in point: despite liking Amir and the work he does, I disagreed with his verdict of not recommending the Clear just because the headphone can be driven to Xmax w/o going deaf within seconds.

Btw, tried their (asr) suggested EQ settings

So did I, too much bass for my taste. I still prefer my Clear w/o any sort of EQ in conjunction with the 35Ω output impedance of my Titanium HD.

It seems people are cherry picking tracks like Blade Runner 2049, which boost that 25-20hz area to an absurd level only meant for subwoofers.

It is easy to bring the Clear to hit Xmax with Bladerunner, aye. I do dare anyone to do that with tracks that have content in the higher frequencies though.

Still, I really like the Bladerunner soundtrack and am currently listening to it. I'm around 20dB away from hitting Xmax and the bass still hits like truck. Two trucks, one left and one right.